General Election, Ireland 2020 - Free Unicorns, Racism, Brick, Ugly, Housing, Tiocfaidh ár lá, Hearts & Minds, Transfers, Asylum, Hot Waters, Open Borders, Polls... Did someone say IMMIGRATION? :icon_eek:


#385

Well yes. Nothing is entirely true. E.g Plenty of lay Catholics had thought it out for themselves read Augustine, Newman etc.

But IMO the Catholic bishops have been in shock since they’ve been challenged. They have never offered a coherent argument why we should do what they say…other than ‘you should do what we say because, didn’t you used to always do what we say ?’


#386

Yes i think Fianna Fail in particular are peteified of Sinn Fein now. Theyre also likely divided with regard to whether or not they should form a coalition with them. Im not sure theres room for three large voting blocs…duality usually dictates that the natural order leans toward two opposing forces. And right now both SF and FG have clearly identifiable, opposing identities.What do FF stand for? Theres potential for them to split sometime soon.

Id see their only hope being retreat to the country with a view to representing the rural conservative vote which doesnt really have a home. Its looking like they may be finished in urban Ireland…unless FG prop them up in a coalition and they then set about implementing SFs manifesto. But why would FG do that? Maybe simply to avoid another election. But it would be of huge benefjt to SF over the medium term and of no benefit to FG electorally.

I disagree with regard to SFs potential being only the ability to take more seats from FF/FG. With more candidates they could have secured practically all the PBP/Solidarity seats which were only secured on SF transfers. Thats 5. Probably a few Labour and Soc Dems also and maybe a cpuple of greens. Thats potentially in the region of another 10 to 13 seats straight off the bat. While it remains to be seen whether the Up The Ra stuff impacts on them in any way, i seriously doubt it at this stage. As youve said yourself the issues right now are housing and health.

FF membership have a big decision to make with regard to retention of Martin


#387

I’d agree with most of this except for the PBP/Solidarity vote block - I see this as relatively loyal, for now.

Its looking like they may be finished in urban Ireland…unless FG prop them up in a coalition and they then set about implementing SFs manifesto. But why would FG do that? Maybe simply to avoid another election. But it would be of huge benefjt to SF over the medium term and of no benefit to FG electorally.

Depends on how its handled. On balance its better to be in power, than out of power. How the changes are sold to the electorate matters. Martin once complained that FG stole FF policies, that FG were “bereft of policies.” It didn’t help FF. If you take policies that the electorate wants, and implement them, you stand a fighting change of survival.
So on balance its better for FG and FF to be try to be in control of their own destinies and share power to shut down SF.

FF also desperately need to finally show they can be a responsible government - their role in the crash still being raised on the doorsteps. They’ve been out of power nearly 10 years, If they don’t go in now, they might be locked out of power for a long time, except maybe as a junior coalition member. The tensions from this would definitely precipitate a breakup.

All this assumes cold hard logical thinking and strict discipline though. I can’t see FF and FG however getting past their petty internal strife to last long together.


#388

I think its pretty clear that each of Brid Smith, Gino Kenny and Mick Barry were each elected on SF transfers in constituencies where SF ran only one candidate. Each would be unlikely to have been elected if SF had run 2 candidates.

Murphy would likewise be at risk if Sean Crowe had a running mate in Dublin SW.

The only seat thats safe is Boyd Barretts.


#389

‘In the fullness of time, minister’


#390

RTE News " Impossible for SF to form coalition government without FF or FG - Ó Broin"

Democracy for slow learners as Seamus Mallon might have said.

Although I presume their antics was to build the resentment of their voters for when the inevitable comes to pass as either an FF-FG coalition or another election.


#391

Fair enough. Yes, they would be there for the taking - wasn’t aware of the transfer pattern.

Thinking this through a little more, I think FF are really in a difficult position. They need to go into power more than anyone else, considering the length of time out of power, FF TDs frustrated to get their hands on the levers of power, and their own laughingly obstinate belief to being the “natural party in government”.
FG are in a strong position here to drive a hard bargain.


#392

Tiocfaidh ar NAMA

PAY DODGE

New Sinn Fein TD refuses to pay €12k in rent arrears to homeless charity despite being elected to €96k-a-year job

  • Dan Danaher

A SINN Fein TD has refused to pay back €12,000 in rent arrears to a homeless charity — despite just being elected to a €96,000 a year job.

Violet-Anne Wynne was evicted from social housing for a failure to pay €63 a week over four years.

The Clare TD was in housing provided by non-profit organisation Rural Regeneration Ireland, which encourages city people to move to the country to help rural economies.

The Kilrush-based politician claimed the person who decided to publicise information about her court case with RRI was “politically motivated” to harm her campaign.

Ms Wynne, a graduate from Trinity College Dublin, said she had a falling-out with the organisation and didn’t pay up because of family health problems.

RRI, which folded last year because of a lack of funding, was forced to take Ms Wynne to court for not paying her rent. Deputy Wynne, her partner and three children left after a judge granted an eviction order in 2016.

DONATION SUGGESTION

Today, RRI founder Jim Connolly proposed that Wynne make a €12,000 donation to a homeless charity in view of the fact she will now earn an annual salary of €96,189.

He said: “Violet Anne Wynne is now going to be a legislator in the Dail and I believe a legislator should comply with the law”.

It emerged today that Ms Wynne also has expressed strong opposition to the HPV and other vaccinations.

In a series of social media comments, she criticised the HSE for suggesting there was no scientific evidence that vaccines were unsafe.

ANTI-VAXX REMARKS

Asked about Wynne’s anti-vaxxer comments, Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald said she did not agree with her deputy and said: “Vaccinations are an essential part of public health and we urge everybody to be vaccinated.”

Tonight Wynne said her past comments about HPV vaccines were old remarks and do not reflect her current views or Sinn Féin policy.


#393

What if Wayne observes Christian Science as a religious belief and way of life, does she? :icon_neutral:


#394

Did RTE indicate the HOW of it as an impossibility?


#395

I didn’t read the piece but was just taking the O’Broin quote at face value. Personally I didn’t vote for SF but would have them in government if it meant implementing the Kenny report or similar.


#396

The Kenny report form the 70’s?

Do we have a good link to that report?


#397

#398

Thanks.


#399

I’d still like to know. We have changed our constitution repeatedly since independence…38 amendment referendums of which 11 failed to pass by my count.

Was that all wrong? Should we have left the constitution alone and just trusted our ancestors?

Where should we have stopped?


#400

what’s there to dispute ? The Ireland of 1937, as evidenced by the preamble, was a place that chose to put upfront notions like “a people”, “obligations”, “humility”, “centuries of trial”, “unremitting struggle”, “nationhood”, “prudence”, “true social order”. These are all higher order notions that wouldnt figure in a preamble written now because the country now is an individualistic, materialistic place that has completely changed the balance in the direction of the “freedom of the individual” - which was mentioned in the preamble, but not as the sole concern.

All the constitutional crusaders are remarkably proud of this move towards individualism. But you can’t use logic on them. They temperamentally could never acknowledge that anything has been lost. In their eyes nothing has been lost. Things are only getting better.

To simplify, in my view, a “populated place” (as opposed to a Nation) which has jettisoned notions like duty and fealty, is in a weaker place in terms of the social cohesion and sacrifice necessary for pretty much any ambitious national project - including reunification.


#401

@Aegis
Why don’t you attempt to answer the questions you’ve posed? It you actually want to know, instead of expecting other to do the brain work for you.


#402

It’s why I’m asking. I’m seeing unsupported statements.
If someone wants to make an argument, it should be supported.
Noone should be expected to accept a statement and try to work out what exactly is driving it. No argument is won that way.
Assume others are reading this thread but not commenting…what are they supposed to think when they see your statement?


#403

I’m not disputing…I’m asking. We have had lots of referendums. Where is the point where the turn happened?

…repeated referenda are in my view a war against it, by a childish populace pretending that its more wise than it’s ancestors.


#404

Then follow your own advice.
Or alternatively ask them.
Also try not to confuse opinion with argument.

@all
The constitution has been out of stock online in hard copy for quite a while now. You would imagine that would be the 1st thing that the government printers would be printing.