Going Japanese AKA The Disapearance Of The Western World


What kind of property do you want to raise kids in?

  • Apartment
  • Semi-D
  • Detached
  • One off rural

0 voters

Initial post may be a bit disjointed but it might link up during discussion

sciencedirect.com/science/ar … 2713001904

The above results could be linked to housing bubbles occurring at times of full employment. What is interesting is how renters fertility rates decrease.


I.e urbanisation and higher density living will lead to lower fertility rates.
During the bubble huge numbers of apartments and townhouses were built. Feck all 4 bed semi-ds or detached houses were built.
Feck all 3/4 bed apartments were built either.

news.com.au/finance/real-est … 6135327168

Here is an old thread with stats on what types of accommodation was built during the bubble ( for some of the years anyway)

From that thread…in 2004 out of a total of 76,554 completions, 16,106 were apartments, double the mount built in the year 2000. 21% of all completions. By 2008 67% of properties built in Dublin were apartments. By this stage 10% of the housing stock had become apartments.

So when it comes to raising children would living in an apartment put you off somewhat? Would you prefer to move to a house?
It also raises sustainability of urban centers somewhat. To what point do we keep densifying? To what end? At what point do you say we are now decreasing the quality of life here and should be looking at diverting resources to another urban center.


I’m with David Attenborough’s recently aired views here. We could do with some lower fertility rates in general in this world. India and China have millenia of human existance to figure out themselves how they get their own houses in order, or their increasingly educated populace will just suffer the consequences.


It’ shard to take such claims seriously and it’s not so recent but I think David Attenborough is misguided at best these days and possibly an easily mislead type figurehead.

Overpopulation is a dangerous myth. It fails to address the real issues and helps to mask the perpetrators of genuine woe and suffering. It’s an easy go-to without much thought, sounds responsible, pragmatic and invokes much head nodding. Yet it’s malthusian logic and deeply impoverished rational at best because of that, at worst it’s pure mind control a.k.a anti-human ∴ anti-life. I’ve seen this logic in the ranks of extreme vegans or animal rights activists who deem human life a threat. It’s not logical Jim.

Earth is primed to enable life. Spaceship Earth is loaded with a precious yet abundant theming cargo of life! Estimated close to 9 million species of life and the population of each?

Does it matter?

Is it the right question?

I understand how David feels maybe with the encroachment of human habitats into wildlife areas but he’s naturally biased in more than one way.

To the topic at hand. Fertility, yes it certainly is dictated by your sense of security and shelter. No doubt about it. Those that have launched an attack on it’s stability are engage din a very insidious form of population control that transcends merely controlling the body count.


Have had one child - up to about three years of age - in a two-bed apartment. Moved to a three bed semi and had another. Then moved to a four bed detached with still just the two kids. All were fine in their own way at the time - but it’s hard to beat detached with a bit of space…and no noise worries is a big plus for me…


The point is that all are appropriate at various stages. Apartment’s aren’t “bad”. For example, small 1-beds enable people in their 20s to live alone at affordable rates, rather than house-sharing. 2-bed apartment can be perfect for a couple with one kid but not ready to commit to an area. If we built decent size 3-bed apartments with decent amenities they would be fine for families too, but unfortunately we don’t. The question “when it comes to raising children would living in an apartment put you off somewhat” doesn’t make sense – living in an apartment is a good time to start having kids.


Dublin is short of spacious apartments.

Hence semi-Ds full of house-sharers, empty nesters reluctant to move out, etc.


Of course people should be discouraged from breeding. That’s because children are odious little shits and the world would be an enormously pleasanter place without any. I’ve said it before; we should be grow in tanks and not let loose on the world until we’re at least 25.
(other opinions are available. :smiley: )

As Borges said, “Mirrors and procreation are abominations, for they multiply mankind and hence his miseries.” :wink:


House sharing is inferior to an apartment of one’s own, but an apartment of one’s own is inferior to a house of one’s own (at least for anybody who enjoys gardening).


I don’t know why Irish apartments aren’t built so that (at least some) ground-floor apartments have a private garden. They are perfectly fine once you don’t mind being overlooked.

It is very common in other countries.


But not if you’re in your 20s and have no desire to engage in any maintenance other than occasionally ironing a shirt. I think apartments suit most 20-somethings much better than houses.


I like the German way of doing apartments- have a half submerged basement( possibly with small windows) then the ground floor windows start at about 7 feet- I.e. above eye height)- it gives them much better privacy. It is a more urban solution than the garden in front is the apartment ( facade onto street) -but less urban than the apartment over commercial units approach.


As politically incorrect as it might sound, the reality is government policy encourages unmarried mothers on the social to have as many kids as possible to get a bigger house. Also, to stay “unmarried” while living with a partner.

In contrast, those who choose to work and save for a deposit on a house often delay starting a family until they feel they can provide best for their family. Government policy, or lack there of, discourages middle income earners from starting a family early.

It’s not just an Irish issue. Spend longer in education, 4/5 years in college, travel for a year. Start a grad job late and work your way to a decent wage. Then, start saving for a deposit,expense of a wedding etc.

Sample of 11 of my mates who are married or engaged; six of us have kids (5 home owners, 1 renter). None of us had kids before the age of 30 and all in mid 30’s now. All mid to very high earners. 7 own a home of which 4 were given land out the country, 2 purchased in last 12 months and 1 in '06.


I find the numbers on this clock pretty scary. The current trend of unlimited continuous growth (be it population growth or economic assumptions) is impossible but where and how will the growth end?

I travel to south east England quite often and I find it way too populated already. It is such a relief to return to less populated Ireland.


The answer is “nobody knows”. Or maybe “when food production efficiency requires us to choose between bacon and children*”.

  • Eating one, making the other. Or maybe eating both. Who knows.



heartfoundation.org.au/imag … trevor.pdf

A less conclusive study hiaconnect.edu.au/wp-content/upl … eview1.pdf

dailytelegraph.com.au/newslo … 8ca50576a9

news.berkeley.edu/2014/01/06/sub … ban-cores/

google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j … dTYf5jWTpg

Another paper backs up the above with further research

iopscience.iop.org/article/10.10 … 8/3/035050


theguardian.com/lifeandstyl … ials-study

There are all sorts of fancy ideas floated as to why this is happening from porn to virginity pledges…simple linked to having to live at home for longer I bet…


pewsocialtrends.org/2016/05/ … year-olds/


Following the Japanese completely except that we are replacing ourselves with the peoples of the middle east. If in 200 years time Europe is Islamic I wouldnt like to be around and good luck to the US and whoever is around that would be considered an infidel…!!

All this crap is linked to our messed up economic systems


Tis all a state of mind. My other half had a very different upbringing from myself - an eastern-block apartment system* versus a v rural Irish setting. We were both happy in our own ways.

  • I’m actually v envious of the build quality of the average ‘block’.

For me, it all comes down to this. Relative ‘peace’ is a huge part of what it takes to make up the best living space.


Middle east birth rates are plummeting.


They are only behind sub saharan Africa as the highest in the world, they are still high.

economist.com/news/middle-ea … e-crescent


yip, sub sahara is a definite boom area.