Green REIT / Hibernia REIT (new Irish REITs)


#81

I am all for the Green REIT but not as an investor given its - constant - very high premium to NAV (vs. even IPUT or buying direct).
I am not for your REIT (the Hibernia REIT) set up by insiders with no Irish property investing experience and chequered track records.
I hope your non-EU immigrant clients can use the internet and due some diligence on your ‘tax break du jour’.
Perhaps some ‘keyboard diligence’ will save them money and hassle in the longer-term.
(PS - are we going to see the English-language school scam in Ireland come with the stipulation that you put 100k in Hibernia REIT?)


#82

I repeat the question, how do you know the State is the largest investor in this REIT?

Or is it just ideal speculation?

As a listed company any shareholding over 3% must be declared so we will soon find out if you are correct :slight_smile:


#83

Agreed Lessor :smiley:


#84

You could be on to something there.

Rings Mickey Noonan


#85

Several centuries ago European pension and widows & orphans funds got wiped out investing in rolling out US railroads. In hindsight, the idea was right (the US had a big future ahead) but the investment was a heart breaker. It led to a lot of hardship in the north of England and Scotland. It was a watershed moment for Wall Street however as the US got it railroads and the lightbulb went off in Washington. Wall Street have been doing it ever since.


#86

The Sunday Business Post are reporting a figure of €750m worth of interest.

Ian Kehoe of the SBP on Ballsy O’Connor last night spoke of a queue of investors lining up to buy property in Dublin.

Someone should alert them to the sages on this site.


#87

I think you are conflating the views of the users here in relation to this REIT and property generally.


#88

they didn’t claim that.
businesspost.ie/#!story/Home … 35ee09662b

Note the use of the word reportedly i.e. the SBP aren’t making that claim. They didn’t use that figure (725 not 750) in the initial report - only in an interview with Kevin Nowlan :unamused:

“interest” is a very loose term. Do you know what bids were submitted?


#89

Interview with Danny Kitchen today on the Irish Times post the Hibernia REIT fund raising
irishtimes.com/business/sectors/commercial-property/awful-lot-of-the-pressure-the-decisions-fell-on-fingleton-1.1625502
As we have posted (exhaustively), Hibernia REIT team as almost no experience in actually buying Irish real estate.
We have also posted (exhaustively), several Hibernia REIT board members were involved in Irish Nationwide.
Irrespective of Anglo / AIB / BOI etc. madness, Irish Nationwide’s corruption and fraud are on another level.
Terrence O’Rourke, managing partner of KPMG, Hibernia Board member who audited IN has never faced sanction.
Danny Kitchen, Chairman of IN, got Michael '“Fingers” Fingleton out without facing prosecution and with full pension / bonus.

Today, Danny is telling the nation to just suck it up (Hibernia REIT is the state paying Danny back for job done in IN)
After his ‘exhaustive’ investigation with E&Y (auditors to Anglo) of IN he only found 72k of ‘questionable expenses’
Poor old Michael “Fingers” Fingleton was let down by poor systems / processes.
And as per Bertie’s tribunals, the cost of investigating the fraud always seems to be greater than the fraud discovered.
(advisor fee system that Bertie created to serve a purpose)

The old guard are back …


#90

A case of buyer beware I guess. It seems you can fool some of the people all of the time.

Suprised they got so much cash with the team in place but what do I know

No doubt competitiveness of bidding for prime office around Dublin will get more intense.


#91

Pathetic.


#92

A lot of what he says in that simply is not credible. What a shithead.


#93

Green REIT just passed the 1.30 mark.
By my calcs they spent about 5-10 cents on flotation fees etc.
The 1.30 price is therefore about 40% above the true NAV.
They bought one portfolio but outbid a large field for it and paid a very full price for it.
Not only that but the general markets have been weakening lately.

Now if you were the Irish Government with exposure to over 100bn in real estate and a tiny REIT with an even tinier free float was part of your ‘valuation basis’ for your year end then…


#94

Interesting. Its clearly overvalued but are you implying that the government is somehow pumping the price? How exactly?

And this is the first I have heard of Green forming part of the government’s valuation basis. Is there something published by Government/NAMA?


#95

When you see what they have being doing - with Draghi’s help - to manipulate the bond market, 50k to manipulate the real estate market is value for money.
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=61578&start=30

NAMA have no formal basis of valuation bar the disclosed 4.5% (which no building has yet been sold at), however anybody familiar with the ‘art form’ of agent valuations will know that the Green REIT ‘surreal’ premium to NAV will be fully employed to at least add 10-20%?!

I was told how in 2009 during the first major NAMA valuations, a tiny transaction of a site in D4 was used to benchmark huge amounts of land in SCD. This is how ‘subjective’ property valuations are - the Green REIT premium will be mana for this.


#96

Sure the motive is there but can’t see how they would do it. Besides there are enough eejit investors out there to do it for them.

No doubt you are right about the agent valuations. I’m sure some nice graphs are being prepared for the end of year glossy brouchures.


#97

The Government controls directly or indirectly so many large pools of capital that doing this is simple:

(a) They can do it direct using the liquidity they control directly (NPRF, NTMA, newEra etc).
Although that is probably too crude a route.

(b) They can do it via the capital they control indirectly (AIB, BlueBay etc).
Although again, not a good trail to have (although this is how they manage their bond yields).

© The preferred method is probably via a confidential ‘friendly’ third party they can repay in other ways.
This would be institutions / entities that are ‘natural buyers’ of stocks but who owe the Government money.
This would include every stockbroker in Ireland and a lot more you could imagine.

Again, given the net traded daily shares of Green REIT (i.e. bought less sold) is so tiny the cost of supporting the share is small.
When compared against the benefit of 100bn of Government real estate valuations, it is a no brainer?


#98

Green REIT is now almost 50% above NAV ?!?!?
Whoever is ‘ramping’ this stock to the year end needs to take a break - starting to get ridiculous?


#99

I have nothing against reits or property investment when it adds up but the green and hibernia reits are a bit strange.

Doubt government is pumping though. This is usually done by financial institutions who are in a particular type of wealth management, transferring other people’s wealth to themselves.

Strategy seems very similar to many aim quoted companies I.e. float some company with a sketchy business plan and lure investors in.

If it pans out in a similar way liquidity could well dry up for these shares.

Anyone know what brokers might be market making in the green REIT?


#100

Davys (who are in the process of buying their 150m debt off the Irish Government in Project Evergreen / Anglos wind down)