Greenan, Avoca Avenue, Blackrock (-300k, -12%)

The Irish Property Bubble (2006) Dublin South - Property Price Drops
1

I would imagine that this sale could be either a repo or forced sale.
myhome.ie/residential/brochu … th/2489598
€2,500,000
8288sqft

Was/is owned by David McKenna.

His other house (Nussbaum, Peartree Field, Blackrock) was repo’d and sold last year
propertypriceregister.ie/Web … enDocument

The house was last for sale for €7,500,000 in 2008 and the IT said at the time that “He is believed to have bought a larger property elsewhere in Blackrock, hence the sale”, which I suppose must have related to Nussbaum, even though it was clearly a much smaller and cheaper house.

In any case, the house is certainly ‘unique’. It has been rented out to pay the mortgage in recent years. I don’t know what to say, other than… I blame America and 1990’s 3 star hotels, both of which seem to have been major driving forced in the design of the house.

2

https://photos.myhome.ie/media/8/9/5/2489598/frontn%20[]_m.JPG

https://photos.myhome.ie/media/8/9/5/2489598/hall%20[]_l.JPG

I have been inside this house a while back, but don’t think much has changed from the photos.
You are spot on SoCoDu re the decor and aesthetic of the house, a different era.
Construction quality is weak and cheaply done in places, and not sure I would risk the pool.
Garden is north facing and the scale of the house makes an even larger shadow.

Can’t see it getting over 2m, and could be materially lower (1.6-1.7m end).
Auction of Ferndale on similar size site at the other end of Avoca in 2012 for under 1m is one benchmark
(thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=45075

The question is the value you would put on the existing large structure of Greenan?
Somone with high technical skill who can do a complete renovation but still use some of the inherent structure would help.
Should be a classic builder / developer re-fit back into a high end (2013 standard) house.

3

Demolishing that would be an act of aesthetic kindness.

I will never get back what I have lost viewing some of the properties on here.

I blame Dallas. 98% of Irish people are design ignorant. Where is the huge manatee when you need it?

4

I wonder if you looked up the planning submissions would you find that Alan Smithee was the architect?

Avoca Avenue - where the Northsiders have the tennis courts

5

I prefer “aesthetically blind”. My wife calls me racist when I point this out.

6

My eyes! The goggles do nothing!

I think your hotel comparison is spot on. You could put a flipchart at the end of the dining room and it wouldn’t look out of place and the staircase looks like its from a flatpack foyer kit.

I don’t mind so much when I see someone spending big and building something in a particular style that I wouldn’t be into myself but this sort of ham-fisted attempt to clearly set out to build something grand and luxurious and coming up so short is depressing.

7

Price drop to 2.2m
daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=713594

8

Greenan, Avoca Avenue, Blackrock, Co. Dublin
€2,250,000 - 5 Bed Detached House (0.45 acre) 718 m² / 7728 ft² For Sale D2
myhome.ie/residential/brochure/greenan-avoca-avenue-blackrock-co-dublin/3223713
https://photos-a.propertyimages.ie/media/3/1/7/3223713/5b2a666a-d42f-47f4-ba95-7dbd97f807df_m.jpg

It’s back, third time lucky ?

Let’s re-cap the Greenan story:

  1. Originally auctioned in Feb 2008 for 7.5m but failed (no chance at this point - well past the peak of the Irish market - bonkers pricing which I believe was McKenna). Despite this, McKenna locked into another property (a smaller one) and bridged Greenan (yikes - such nice accommodating banks, thank you Bertie). The bridge collapsed (along with massive other debts), and both were taken by the receiver. McKenna left the country.
    Pre-auction irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/his-home-is-his-castle-1.933787
    Post-auction independent.ie/life/home-garden/homes/the-million)aires-crib-26428383.htmlaires-crib-26428383.html)

  2. Greenan was let to an Embassy for a few years but then left un-let (they didn’t like it). David McKenna went to the Middle East and KPMG got the rent cheques. It was brought back to market with Allen & Jacobs (not known as a seller of +2m houses) in 2013 asking 2.5m, but then reduced to 2.2m but I don’t think ever got much of a bid above 2m. Must have been an Irish bank involved as the property was taken off to bring to market later (the UK banks in Ireland unusually complete the process via an auction). Irish banks don’t foreclose. Period.
    emigrant.scoilpac.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=85145&Itemid=255
    independent.ie/life/home-garden/homes/wow-factor-abounds-at-blackrock-mansion-29414354.html

Greenan even featured in a standard bulls**t Mark Keenan article on top 10 Dublin roads (Independent’s property spin doctor). Avoca Avenue is barely holding on by its fingernails (if not long gone) as a top Dublin road. Outside of 7 beautiful period houses (from Glenheather to Avoca Lodge), Avoca Avenue is a collection of apartments, townhouses, 1970s houses, and everything else. Saying you live on Avoca Road could mean anything. Only aging Dublin SoCoDu EAs still revere Avoca Avenue (and Cross Avenue).
independent.ie/life/home-garden/homes/paved-with-property-gold-the-top-10-most-exclusive-streets-in-ireland-30215475.html

  1. Greenan now back with Lisney asking 50k above the 2013 asking of 2.2m (McKenna still involved).

There are two key issues here:

A. Site is 0.45 acres in a normal rectangular shape with large frontage onto Avoca Avenues (good tick). Problem is that on its important West side (i.e. the sunlight), it has a massive (i.e. +20 ft.) bank of neighbours leylandii fully screening out this boundary. (Neighbour is Barry O’Callaghan of Riverdeep fame, who uses these trees to screen out the awful 1990s structure of Greenan from his very beautiful Avoca Lodge and grounds, one of the best on Avoca Avenue). On the East side, there is a block of apartments built right up to the boundary (again, not classy). Land on Avoca Avenue troughed at c. 2.1m an acre in 2012 (Ferndale), but is currently about 3m an acre (Donmar, 23 Avoca Avenue etc.). Agents are trying to get it to 3.5m but having much less success (there are only so many IT / Aircraft leasing guys looking to build in Blackrock at one time). Given the drawbacks of Greenan’s site, its value is c. 1.5m

B. The second issue is why the site value of Greenan is so important is due to its next issue - the structure. Greenan’s construction quality is very low (sub 100 sq ft. townhouse in mid-lands housing estate type low). A cheaply built late 1990s house to get the biggest size for the cheapest price (a reflection of its owner). Chipboard, plywood, plaster and old upvc windows. The fabric is equally cheap. More importantly, its shape is awkward (two big intersecting blocks), and not clear that it would fit into any future, more aesthetic, plan. The scale of the structure (almost 8,000 sq ft.) also adds substantially to any demolition costs.

I think that in 2013, with land at c 2m an acre in Blackrock, Greenan had no chance of the asking (i.e. site worth only 1m). You had to really love this awful structure (inside and out) to get to that asking. There were no takers.

Now with land closer to 3m an acre in Blackrock (for once-off housing), Lisney have taken 1.5m (site) + 100 sq ft. x c 7,500 sq ft. (structure), to see if they can attract anybody who is interested in using the structure. If they can’t find such a buyer, then the pricing will come below the 2m mark (i.e. cost of demolition and re-build). Don’t know if a buyer could repeat the apartments of the structure to the right of it (Avoca Cottage) ? Probably makes more sense, and would make a 2m site value much more possible.

Will be interesting to see if it can finally find a buyer this time…

9

One can only weep when comparing the value to be had in this Blackrock house compared to recently sold Bellamont Forest House on several hundred acreas in North East Cavan irishtimes.com/life-and-style/homes-and-property/cavan-castle-on-1000-acres-sells-for-2-million-1.2236073?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Flife-and-style%2Fhomes-and-property%2Fcavan-castle-on-1000-acres-sells-for-2-million-1.2236073.

And yes I know it is Cavan and not Blackrock but I’d say that you could get from Cootehill to Dublin Airport in 1 hour or less and not all the buyers of these mega houses work in the freaking IFSC!

10

I walk past that Blackrock house almost everyday. The exterior photos are a lot nicer than reality.

Looks ideal for a developer to either make into apartments or with the bar and pool already built into a boutique hotel?

11

Got a write up in todays Irish Times

irishtimes.com/life-and-styl … -1.2244258

It is entirely discombobulating to walk through the doors of Greenan, Avoca Avenue, Blackrock, Co Dublin, because in a split second you seem to have been transported from one of Blackrock’s priciest roads to the 1990s and a small hotel in the midlands.

There’s the hall that feels like a foyer with its busy wallpaper, hotel-type carpet, dark wood panelling and imposing staircase. To the left is a living room that opens into a dining room and on into a kitchen. To the right is a cavernous reception room with two sets of stairs – one to a wine cellar, another, a glass and chrome modern staircase, leads up to a vast floating mezzanine level whose purpose is unclear.

As well as windows to the front in this room, there’s a large internal window to the side and it looks onto the 10-metre swimming pool. It’s certainly unusual. This reception room opens through to another vast room that could easily be a dancehall with its dark wood floors and wall panelling and large bar in the corner. There’s also a shower room, toilets and a gym.

Upstairs there are five double bedrooms and multiple en-suites. The en-suite for the main bedroom is reached through a walk-in closet that is almost the size of another bedroom.

Outside there is good access to the north facing back garden from several rooms and to the front – Greenan is not set as far back from the road as many of its neighbours – there is enough parking for several cars.

Greenan was built in the mid-1990s by David McKenna who made his fortune in Marlborough Recruitment and who was one of taoiseach Bertie Ahern’s “dig-out” friends – a group of 12 businessmen who made payments totalling £38,500 to Mr Ahern.

The detached house first came up for sale in 2008 by auction with an AMV of €7.5 million. It didn’t sell and was put on the market by private treaty and after a few months Lisney says that an offer of just north of €6 million came in but was rejected. It has been a rental for a number of years and is being viewed unfurnished. In 2013 it came on the market again – through Allen & Jacob – with an asking price of €2.5 million, later reduced to €2.2 million, but still no sale. Lisney has now been instructed by KPMG to sell Greenan and the asking price is €2.25 million.

It seems a strong price for a house that has proven to be a difficult sell and needs not just a major decorative makeover but also a rethink in its layout, as well as something creative done to the exterior to improve its appearance. Although, given its location and the .45 acre site, it’s possible that a buyer might eye up the potential of the site rather than the house.

12

The 6m story is bs and a mis-telling of what a specific buyer was doing in Dublin at that time. It is crazy how the Times Property allow themselves to be used in this way for advocating such fabricated rumours to try and create artificial pricing points for a house. The did the same with Eddie Irvines Ischia in Dalkey. If they were writing about stock and shares, they would be fined for such behaviour (although probably not in Ireland).
thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=64398

Also, I would not waste money on a survey (which will be expensive and fairly terrifying reading), unless I had an agreement from the seller’s solicitors telling me that they will sell at the price offered. It is not KPMG who is running the show here.

FYI Plot Map from D00A/0973 planning in January 2001

Greenan, 17B Avoca Avenue, Blackrock, Co. Dublin.

https://dms.dlrcoco.ie/Exe/tiff2png.exe/00001DXX.PNG?-i+-r+75+-g+15+D%3A\ZYLABD~1\INDEXD~1\PLANEXTD\TIFF\1120\00000056\00001DXX.TIF

13

Greenan, 17B Avoca Avenue, Blackrock, Co. Dublin

The saga is over, and it went for 2.125m in the end.

Was bid (I kid you not) over 2.5m in 2011 (was a corporate-type bidder).
His Irish bank turned down a bid of 1.75m at end 2012 (would have taken it on the spot) vs. 2.25m asking.
Owner intervened to turn down a bid of 2.1m in May 2013, and raised the asking to 2.5m (wtf?).
Clearly, the Irish bank, having been given the run around here, called a halt in 2015.
Three years later, managed to add 25k to the May 2013 bid :angry:

Enough has been said about this. I can only hope that the structure is not long for this world. No planning up as yet. Either a brand new “Paul Brazil” type mansion, or high-end apartments (per right hand side of Greenan), would be in order here.

My bet is the latter.

Address Information
17B AVOCA AVE
BLACKROCK
DUBLIN

Sale Information
Date of Sale: 24/03/2016
Price: €2,125,000.00
Not Full Market Price: No
VAT Exclusive: No
Description of Property: Second-Hand Dwelling house /Apartment

14

Good spot!

Amazed they got more that 2m for it, but then again a fool and his money are easily parted…

God it’s one ugly looking house, hope it’s torn down…

15

it is an eyesore on avoca avenue

im a little surprised Barry O Callaghan didnt buy it just to tear it down and give himself a lovely long sweeping driveway

but that would be a little indulgent 8DD

16

Let’s pray it’s knocked, or at least given one of those before-and-after ugly house becomes unrecognisably attractive house refurbs.

17

Given the price they paid, they are probably going to use the structure in some way (otherwise, the land is worth c. 1.6m).

O’Callaghan would have reliably bought this, however his (mis) fortunes may not have allowed such an indulgence now.

18

Yes, there have certainly been cheaper and larger sites on Avoca Avenue (Donmar Lodge & Dun Grianan), but I suppose we’ll just have to wait and see! Can’t see what anybody could want with that structure, unless they demolish most of it and retain a portion, it’s far too big for the site unless they want to make a mad attempt at converting it to apartments as you suggested. I’ll put my money on it being flattened! :smiling_imp:

19

just walked past this morning, there are electrical contractors in (re wiring specialists apparently)

hardly the act of someone going to knock the place?

20

Yikes !
(a missed opportunity from the GFC to get this thing taken down).
I would still put in for planning to replicate the flats on their east side, as my long-term insurance policy.
(in case another buyer, with a taste for this house, cannot be found).