half a million unemployed and workpermits still being issued

I was looking at the statistics for permits issued at djei.ie/labour/workpermits/publications.htm

There are a huge number of permits being issued. Now without knowledge of the roles it is easy to argue the jobs can’t be filled locally but then I saw that TCS and a few other IT contractor companies were issued a large number of permits; that is just job destruction in the local economy.
I know TCS well as our company use them. Fortunately for us our business is expanding and there are no redundancies as result of onshore offshoring but TCS are in the business of outsourcing work and they appear to be using mostly Indian staff to do this. The staff work for lower wages than local staff, work longer hours and work unsociable hours.

Richard Bruton is Minister for this department.
While the policy was understandable but wrong when Mary Harney was there(In bed with Irish Small and medium business) how can this still be government policy now.

There would be about 25Million unemployed people with access to the Irish labour market without need for a permit and perhaps double that who would like to step up to Irish wage levels from lower wage eurozone economies. I can’t believe none of these positions can be filled.

I feel it is more a case of them not being able to fill them at the salary they offer and God forbid should they have to upskill their own staff to occupy roles which generate profit for their own companies.

Am I looking at this wrong or has the government got their policy areseways again.

Sad fact but a builder can’t write gaming code - never could, unlike ever to. Nothing to see here. I welcome more taxpayers.

Well there are many high end jobs which Irish people cannot do.

Take Google. 70% of their workforce in their Dublin EU HQ are non Irish.

Usual reasons. No foreign language or not enought techies.

So these people need work permits

I can understand your frustration but I work in a i.t mnc and we cannot get the people with the necessary skills. The companies look for 5+ years experience in specialist topics which you don’t pick up in fas in a 3 month course. I would say half or more of our new hires are foreign and this despite the management would prefer to hire Irish(they tend to stick around longer than a year or two) but there’s also an increase in tele-working. A colleague from Poland moved back last week so that 1 less guy paying tax here I guess.

One positive is I pushed for a co-op and we got one for 6 months so at least he will have something on the c.v if he goes for a job, and we are hiring 2 new college grads which is great, but they will be on small money to start with but thats to be expected these days I guess.

Nor can most Irish people speak a wide range of Asian and European languages - which are probably most of those service industry permits.

Can we tone down the racism, please? There are Labour voters on this forum.

The staff you refer to can be recruited within the EFTA for the most part if the salary is there. Note that Google wasn’t one of the companies I was referring to.

If you look at djei.ie/publications/labour/ … odate.XLSx alongside Google there were a lot of very ordinary sounding businesses and IT outsourcers.
Those businesses are riding on the coat tails of genuine overseas employers like Google.

I know my company in Ireland is certainly not making enough effort to recruit locally or to develop their own people in to these roles but still get permits for overseas staff.

Paypal and the like need languages like danish and arabiac
Im a bit rusty myself

Has not the EU a population of c 500 million?

Is this not a wide enough pool to find workers (with some, very specific exceptions).

Both can be got easily without visas/permits. My co-worker has french citizenship and has the most beautiful penmanship in Arabic.

foreign works bring new skills here that Irish people can learn from. Its positive.

Since the EU are bankrolling us do you think it is a reasonable expectation that we employ a few thousand EU citizens in exchange?

In Germany the jobs on that list like carers, warehouse workers, restuarant workers and meat factory workers would be filled by the unemployed fairly quickly as they compel their unemployed to find work as quickly as possible.

There are young unemployed IT graduates in the country…

…and there are jobs in IT for those with some years experience.

So when u hear in the media …

…what they mean is IT workers with 3+ years experience.

Companies do not want the expense (time & cost) of training people up, they need people to hit the ground running.

IT graduates have a chicken & egg problem. Its difficult to get hired without experience, and they can’t get experience without getting hired.

(Yes there is exceptions, to what I am saying. Eg: Cisco announcing 100 graduate jobs yesterday. But I think in general this is how it is.)

Also, graduates with less than 2.1 in a honors IT degree program are not going to get hired.

As mentioned earlier in the thread by another and matching my own experience of co-workers the motivated foreign worker gets their skills and returns home after 2 or 3 years to the job they really want. this applies most especially to the Indians.
Ireland won’t build a competitve advantage on that. The skills aren’t indigenous to the Island.

there’s also the fact that we effectively have a bunch of highly paid young french/italian… employees working in Dublin and Cork (paying tax PAYE) who should really be in their own country but for the fact that Ireland is a tax haven for multinationals within the EU. It’s probably for these employees that we are issuing permits for, so it would be a bit rich to complain.

One thing on this subject though, I work for an American company, several of the employees here are US ex-pats and they have never had any trouble getting a visa. Last year a girl here was offered an internal transfer to the US and her visa was denied because they hadn’t sufficiently proven they couldn’t source the skills locally. I thought that was unreasonable.

Look at the excel sheet. A large proportion of those permits are for companies which sound very low tech.

French and Italian workers don’t need permits. Free movement of labour is a basic condition of the single market.

I object to the likes of TCS and Wipro outsources because there are companies here who’d do it too.

2012, top five companies issued with permits:

Employer Name Total Health Services Executive 58 LM Ericsson Limited 43 Wipro Technologies 24 Tata Consultancy Services 22 Google Ireland Limited 20 2011, top five:

Health Services Executive 237 Wipro Technologies 161 Google Ireland Limited 148 Tata Consultancy Services 99 Ernst & Young 59 Wipro doesn’t seem to have any presence in Ireland:
wipro.com/location/europe.aspx, so I guess these are all contractors who really work for a third party.
Tata at least has an office in Dublin, but again I guess these contractors are all hired on to someone else.
So out of roughly 700 visas among the top five last year, 260 went to contracting outfits.

The spreadsheet is only for permits that year. I work for an MNC and looking at the list for 2012 and looking at the number of “landed” individuals in front of me the numbers do not correlate. So the true figure per company would have to be averaged over 2 years or more.

It would be interesting to see how many viable work visas each company has at the moment.

There are millions unemployed in Europe can not some of them do this work? This has nothing to do with skill shortages and everything to do with Labour arbitrage.