half of all income earners now out of the tax net

This statement has serious implications for House Prices in the future. Only 10% paying the top rate of Tax. 50% pay no Tax.


What does a single person/Married couple need to earn to enter the Tax net at the low and high Rate
The average wage in this country has to be down significantly

Cobblers! What’s VAT? Swiss cheese? What’s PRSI?

There’s always one! He does of course mean income tax

And still there are people who will insist that Ahern, McCreevy, Harney and Cowen are/were competent to handle the economy :angry:

Still cobblers. VAT is what? - 22%. Considering people on low incomes need to spend nearly every penny, that’s a 22% tax on gross incomes.

You’re saying it’s “cobblers” to talk about income tax at all and the number of people paying it? Why are you talking about VAT?

I saw BL assert 50% outside the tax net - makes Ireland sound like a very benevolent tax regime. Until you consider high VAT and all the stealth taxes. ( I remember in the States 25 years ago an American work coleague complaining about a 5% tax on cars). People are very much in the tax net on the lowest incomes here.

If that is said, it’s only to prepare the ground to change that percentage substantially i.e min wage back into the net I bet ] ,

It’s been obvious for a while that the next income tax changes would be at the low/middle end. That’s where the biggest hole in revenues are.

This is typical of the boiling frog metaphor

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog worth a read c.f. decerebrate frogs!

The government abolished rates in the late 70’s. The payment to local councils was supposed to come from central funding (Thats why there is still resistance to water and waste charges as it may represent double taxation).
Income taxes were reduced in the 90’s on the basis that peoples consumption would be taxed and thus the introduction of hidden taxation (higher VAT, etc.). This was supposed to pay for all state expendature. Then the health levy (couldn’t call it a tax, people might get upset) was introduced.

Water and waste charges are being reintroduced, property tax is making a comeback and now the introduction of income tax for the lower payed is being proposed.

That is Fianna Fail government for you giveaway, takeback, take more.
Still its what the people want.
Read about the brainless frog, it will give you some insight into the Irish voter.

I think the OP is using the headline to illustrate that average incomes have plummeted => the amount people can borrow for housing is reduced which could be yet another strangulation factor for the Irish property market. Its not a thread on whether or not Ireland is a low or high tax economy

Quick look at last weeks payroll. 26 Staff paid. Mix of parttime and full time. Gross earnings of é11k, tax paid of é796 euro. Only 11 staff paid tax. 4 members of staff paid é400 euro tax in total, the other 7 paid the rest. These would be full time, and the highest paid (46k per year) paid é146 in tax. Income Levy of é192 was also deducted. So for a gross wage of é10775, the govt took é988.This kind of backs up lennys figures.

VAT is not applicable to everything - basic foods for example are exempt.

Only 10%? This is a lot lower than I would have thought. Going from 21% to 10% is a biggie. I guess a lot of construction jobs were in higher tax band. It’s also reasonable to expect a higher proportion of the higher tax payers are state employees, which infers greater private sector mayhem.

9.1% tax deducted on my last payroll, including levy. Excludes PRSI and Employers PRSI. Employees PRSI was 621 euro and employers was 1123.

VAT in Ireland is close to the median in European terms, so that’s a bit of distraction if you’re trying to compare relative tax levels in Ireland with elsewhere.

PRSI is insurance. Like health insurance, this pays out if you’re unlucky enough to need it.

Ireland’s huge problem is that the median earner pays a tiny amount of their income in tax. I did a quiz about this a couple of months ago to see how much or little people really know about their income tax system:
ronanlyons.com/2009/07/28/a- … ncome-tax/

It’s based on the most recent Revenue Commissioners statistics on income tax. An analysis of the first couple of hundred results is up here:
ronanlyons.com/2009/08/04/tu … tax-hikes/

An entirely different source and method of looking at the same issue came up with the same answer. OECD figures have shown a systematic and growing undertaxing of the average worker here, compared to everywhere else in the OECD.

The Minister’s right, but it’s not a function of the recession, or if it is only in part. It’s a function of his predecessor’s period in office.

I think all you’ve proven there Ronan is that people aren’t able to discern between the various components that make up the difference between Gross and Net pay.

They were probably bang on with the percentage shift but don’t separate PRSI mentally from income tax.

There’s also a question about how you’d treat something like a pension levy for example that is clearly not linked to the outturn of your pension… :laughing:

Would it have killed him to say that instead of the inaccurate thing he actually said? Income tax is not a synonym for tax, because it is, afaik, only a small portion of the funds the state receives.

VAT is probably balanced out by child support for most anyway…
Throw in mortgage interest relief and everything else, and even less people are actually net tax payers at the end of the day…

Indeed, and low income earners are less likely to be buying items that attract VAT.

Now if undertone had complained about excise duty…