'Help to Hoard' - How Government made the Housing Crisis


#22

and people spend more in the broader economy when they have equity in their property (sorry renters) though it’s obviously unsustainable long term


#23

A lengthy post about Sinn Fein and holiday homes appeared and disappeared. Or else I imagined it.


#24

There you go then. It takes 18 posts before someone either blames Sinn Féin for something or someone imagines they did. :wink:

Btw, what’s “new” about SF’s thinking? Das Kapital is 150 years old this year.


#25

Take the counterfactual. That all boom-era planning permissions had been allowed to lapse after the normal 5 years.

This would mean developers being obliged to re-apply for the same developments that were granted permission in 2007 but never built. This would add a lot of time and expense to the process and would be seized on as more evidence of the gubbermint getting in the way of houses being built, etc, etc.


#26

Receivers for the most part renewed planning permissions - any permission pre Aug 2007 has now expired.

For a small number of sites with post 2007 permission this legislation will negate the need to apply for new planning.

But hey the land hoarding line makes for a better story.


#27

Is the re-application a foregone conclusion (bar the time & expense) ?


#28

Ah here. What I mean as not “new” is some people being so used to instinctively blaming Sinn Fein that they get blamed for solar eclipses, STD outbreaks, queues on the M50 etc. You’d have to have seen the original post maybe.


#29

But to counter your counter factual, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. These “developers” aren’t developing their extant renewed planning. So it’s a policy failure. And it happens to help developers hoard and keep sites in the deep freeze


#30

Assuming the land has not been rezoned, you will always get something. However the not in my backyard brigade will be out in force. A trip to ABP is to be expected.


#31

The vast majority of developers don’t have the money to hoard.
It’s a very expensive decision.
And not one many can take voluntarily.
Most are trying to get the show on the road as soon as they buy the site.

The problem is that government policy has increased the cost of building in Ireland.
(Forget the price of land. Look at the difference in build costs between North & South Ireland)
This has hit against the ceiling buyers are able to afford, due to Central Bank restrictions.
**
Simply, the build cost has exceeded what buyers are able to pay.**

Developers (and their funders) wont build when there is the slightest chance of stock remaining unsold.

Then there’s also the delays with planning etc to contend with.

Developing is an absolute bloody headache for all involved.


#32

Stop doing that

Stop putting sensible analysis of the reasons behind low supply of housing into the public domain

Get with the programme -

  • it’s a gigantic conspiracy to deliberately inflate house prices
  • it’s ideological neoliberalism run wild, Tories, Thatcher etc
  • it’s the old crushing the young
  • its vulture funds getting sweetheart deals, REITs, global capital, etc

#33

if you think i exaggerate then have a listen to this unbelievable podcast produced by the Irish Times no less

soundcloud.com/irishtimes-polit … e-to-build

Hugh Linehan corrals a number of leftist academics into violent agreement with each other that state intervention will solve everything and has no possible downside or side-effects

Some moments of unintentional comedy when the overwhelming consensus of all the participants is matched only by their agreement that they don’t actually know much about the topic


#34

I’m amazed at how much the Left/Liberals want the State to run/build/manage everything and pay out to all and everyone.
But at the mere mention of the possibility of a national ID card being introduced as has been the case the past few days, they’re howling at the moon about big brother, data safety and State interference!


#35

Look at Nama’s own comments in July about land hoarding. They’ve sold billions of land banks to non insolvent funds. The facts don’t support your assertions.


#36

Wishy washy left wing journalists didn’t bankrupt this country, the domestic wealthy did.
I can see how the clear black and white irrefutability of the OP in this thread would annoy you though. You’re one of those “we all partied so shut up your whining” types


#37

The only way the domestic wealthy bankrupted this country was with the backing of the government.

You don’t give any government the power to do good.
You just give them power.
And they do what they like with it.

The government bailed out the banks.
The government took on their debt and foisted it upon the taxpayer.
The government is blocking house building as they want prices to increase.

As for journalists, they report as they are told.
Ask any and they will tell you about stories that somehow fail to make publication.
Why decides what to publish or not ?
Certainly not *redacted * who just happens to be FG’s #1 donor.

It’s all just coincidence.


#38

I’m not saying all.
Some definitely have the ability to hoard.
But it’s not an across-the-board strategy.

And in any normally-functional market (i.e. one where the government isn’t purposely increasing the cost of build, whilst simultaneously stagnating buyers affordability) , the hoarders would be blown out of the water by those who build and keep prices down.


#39

Every single site that I know if that qualifies for the 2012 CGT exemption is not being developed. The owners always say that they are holding it to avail of the capital appreciation.

Anyone care to explain why the further 5 year CGT exemption was introduced that can extend the CGT period to 2024?


#40

What facts are you referring to? Nama is an organisation trying to deflect from the fact it effectively shut down every building site on sat on a land bank for ten years.

On the other hand vulture funds are trying to sell down their land exposure as quick as they can. Pretty much every lot for sale in any of the Allsops auction is being sold by a vulture fund. Go into any EA around the country and again you will find vulture funds selling land at knock down prices.

The unpalatable truth is that there is a shortage of developers and the government is hell bent on increasing construction costs - Did they not just increase builders wages 10% during the week.


#41

How many sites do you know? How many homes does that equal?

It is very easy to buy development land at €10k per site. Go into any EA in any country town.

There are no barriers to entry on the development front, just a lack of finance and high build costs that makes house building uneconomic in many parts of the country.

However it is much easier to blame mythical large scale land hoarders than accept the reality.