Home Choice Loans = Subprime, therefore ...

Do you not think though that the reason the mortgage lending requires a 20% deposit is because they as well as you think the market is over valued. I think if values adjusted further then the banks would again be comfortable lending at 92% LTV. Say another 30% and they could see the values supported by the underlying rents.

Why is it not a bailout if it can only be used to give money to developers?


this is a bailout favouring large developers over sellers of second hand homes and smaller developments.

If it’s not a bail out how come it’s what CIF were looking for and Tom was so happy?

If the Government want to de bailout it and give all sellers a fair crack at the whip then why not open it to purchasers of second hand homes in areas with existing services.

Sorry proximo but you are wrong.

I wasn’t disputing that it’s an incentive, and I completely agree that the ability to save a deposit is reasonable - in the time honoured fashion. At current prices a 10% deposit is about right - 20% is very difficult particularly for young families. Of course as prices fall this will get easier. As it happens the scheme requires only an 8% deposit - which is a big incentive in the current environment.

Negative equity is an issue which should be properly explained to all availing of the scheme. Those who are not bothered by this will proceed for family / social reasons alone. That’s after all why most people buy a house.

Exactly. The controversies over medical cards and education have masked the issue, and unfortunately it’s taking a while for the penny to drop for second-hand vendors. It will eventually and there’ll be plenty of angry vendors (not just investors, but plenty of potential second-time buyers wondering where the ladder went) realising that they’re being screwed twice - being put at a competitive disadvantage with developers, and paying for the privilege of this disadvantage. Pity that point wasn’t laboured on Primetime last night.

I don’t think the 20% down rule is solely about valuations - banks are reigning in lending - period. This is one way to do it.

Values will fall - no question. But that’s of no help to young families who want to own their own home in their own area near schools granny etc. The vast majority of people buying in this scheme will live for 20 years there by choice regardless of the ‘value’ of the house.

Because the sale of a new property crystallises a VAT gain for the Government, and so is revenue positive. Thus they are TAKING money from developers.

No, I’m NOT … :wink:

But is this really what will happen? Remember Homechoice covers 4 mainly urban councils (Cork City Council, Dublin City Council, Galway County Council and Kilkenny County Council) with loans up to €285k.

So the scheme will allow those people without large deposits to buy newly-built properties around the €300k mark in urban areas. In the current market this will buy them a 2 bed apartment in Clongriffin. Unless granny lives in Clongriffin and the family in question intend to raise their kids in the 2 bed for the next 20 years, does it really solve the problem?

No they are taking VAT from FTB’s through developers and allowing developers to walk away surely.

(Yeah, I know Proximo, don’t call you Shirley :slight_smile: )

The Home Choice Loan is available to a new build ANYWHERE in the country. Those were the councils that were chosen to ADMINISTER the scheme.

Steady on Jost - I’m not a cheerleader for this scheme and no it will not solve the problem. I’m pointing out how much over reaction there is to it and how much of that is misplaced.

NO - FTB’s ONLY. But anywhere, yes.

Typo, amended.

My mistake, I misread their FAQ. The point still stands that the scheme still does not enable FTBs in Dublin to buy a property that they’ll stay in for the next 20 years. Significant further price drops will be required before that happens - and the scheme may potentially delay those drops.

I understand, but the assertion by Finneran etc that this scheme will be the silver bullet for many house buyers without deposits is disingenuous.

that is what the minister said last night when under pressure on Prime Time. But thats not what the home choice website says:

I’d say he just said it while under pressure and if questioned later will maintain that he made a mistake or some auld sh!te like that. But this scheme only applies to new builds according to the website.

A self build is a newly built home.

It’s a fairly well beaten path building your own gaff, the process of drawing down funds and managing the project from planning to completion is arduous and stressful not to mention complicated. For this reason I can see it being difficult to get it through the Homechoice process - but I don’t see how or why they’d refuse.

It will no doubt be a small minority who choose this path but I’d lay good money that they’ll allow it. There’s a lot of votes in self build in rural Ireland - next generation of the family building a house on the farm / holding etc. Monster issue around the country, bungalow blitz planning refusals don’t get votes - and this scheme has votes in mind.

Jump through the hoops and you’ll get your loan.

I stand corrected.

honestly I wonder. I’d say you’ll need to jump through hoops and be in fairly tight with your local FF-er

fairly negative article from RTE here talking about how all these schemes are A Bad Thing™

They even give the pin a plug

Self build is notoriously difficult, I have friends who are just finishing 6 years later … absolute fuckin nightmare. I doubt if your local FF rep would risk getting involved, too much to lose.

Of couse, they’ll look for the credit (vote) after you’ve got your house … :wink: