How safe are the public service jobs?

I am very suprised by this , it was widely assumed public service jobs were safe. A close friend of mine does something similar for another government department and regards his postion as very safe.

1000 jobs is quite a lot , hopefully none of the pinster or celtic debt monkeys for that matter are effected.

rte.ie/news/2008/0515/hse.html

HSE puts plan to Govt for 1,000 job cuts
Thursday, 15 May 2008 07:33
The Health Service Executive has submitted a proposal to the Government that would mean the loss of 1,000 jobs.

The jobs would include 200 senior management and 800 clerical and administrative posts.

A very experienced management consultant that I know reckons middle management is overstaffed in the HSE by a factor of 10, these are the jobs that need to be cut, not necessarily senior and clerical. Will it happen? Probably not.

Civil Service, and Public Service jobs are different. If you work for a Government department, like the HSE, you can be offered this, as it means that the employee is no longer paying into the pension scheme etc, and as a result, are technically off the books. Public Service, like University Lectures, etc, would still be on the University’s books for Pension plans even if they were offered redundancy.
However, I think it shows an admission finally, that there are real problems in the HSE, and changes need to be made. We no longer have the money to just throw at the issues. They need to be fixed.

You have had typists (that I know of with only a secretarial course c.1980) getting promoted to middle management in Galway who are verifiably numerically illiterate , hardly management material . They only got promoted becuase other typists were promoted.

The middle rank of the HSE is expensive and incompetent rubbish, that said some are competent but they should all be made do a series of tests and teh worst half should go forthwith with the lowest half of the best half being given a year to cop themselves on before their next test !

Local Authorities are exactly the same, packed with idiot level 5-7 persons who can barely work out how to straighten a paperclip . Off with their heads too.

The HSE is taking a battering for the profile of its employment structure. Put simply despite having management and clerical balloon over the past period, they are cutting frontline services. Someone has clearly finally figured out that the public are more likely to support the frontline staff than the backroom staff if it boiled down to a strike.

That being said, the HSE is still a black hole into which money is disappearing. I’d like to see an indepth audit done of where the money is being spent.

I think that ultimately - although it will take years and years and years, we may well see the HSE being streamlined and perhaps a bit more accountable. Lately they have been spending money unwisely - building things but not staffing them, that sort of nonsense. This will not go on if we have major budgetary problems in the future.

What exactly are all these backroomers for? I mean seriously, is there anything that 95% of them do which shouldn’t be automated by now?

While I wouldn’t go on percentages per se, the perception is that the number of admin staff is far in excess of the number required.

What they exactly do? Well whether you like it or not, the HSE is a documentation intensive organisation and those documents need to be organised. With the best will in the world, computerisation doesn’t do it all yet. I’m not au fait with what exactly they do but I am ex public service although not in this country and for reasons involving accountability certain stuff has to get done in a traceable way and although you can do a whole lot of computerising of stuff, you can’t automate all of it.

In any case, I’d go with the earlier poster’s comment regarding middle management. There are layers of management that may not be necessary. Clerical work isn’t always avoidable. Strangely enough, in most organisations, when rationalisation comes along, it’s not the management levels get rationalised.

Ok how about this, can anyone find out,

1)How man staff are employed by the state via the HSE
2)How many are Nurses
3)How many are Doctors (including surgeons, consultants etc etc)

This might be overly simplistic but for all of the coverage and talk in the media and even on this thread, I relaised if I don’t know this then hwo can I or others expect ot have a simple grasp of the matter.

Can someone spend a few minutes and find these 3 totals?

hse.ie/eng/Publications/corporate/HSE_Service_Plan_2008.html

So it looks like each HSE manager/administrator is in charge of 4.68 other people.

You’ve hit the nail on the head there 2Pack. The biggest problem within the public service in general has been the concept of “seniority”, whereby people were automatically promoted based on years of service rather than on the quality of what they did. This has resulted in many incompetants rising to middle managment roles where they are overpaid for doing very little.

This is one of the reasons that the public service was haemmoraging people prior to the introduction of benchmarking. It was, quite rightly, perceived by some that they would be better rewarded and have better career prospects in the private sector because of the practice of promoting people in the basis of time served. Benchmarking, was seen as a way of keeping good quality people within the public sector.

Of course, it went too far. IMO, there should be no automatic imperative on public sector pay levels to keep pace with those in the private. If people choose to work in the public sector, it should be a choice borne out of something more than the level of pay on offer. Otherwise, go and work in the private sector period. Benchmarking effectively confused the issue as it set pay as the sole issue, when the seniority issue was/is of more importance.

The powers that be have attempted to address the seniority issue in recent years by introducing external recruitment at a higher level entry grade which is designed to attract graduates. However it will be a while yet before many of those recruited at that level make it into positions of real influence.

Whats wrong with been a typist?. My wife was one (circa 1982) and now holds the 3rd most senior postion in a contential region of a global bank. Some people did typing because thats all Mum & Dad could afford at the time.

She worked hard, got evening degrees and is still nummercially challanged.

And I cant spell

Long time reader - first time poster.

I’m a middle managment HSE emplyee at grade VI level - well maybe I’m not middle mgt maybe I’m lower managment. I really don’t mind what I’m called once its not too early.

Word on the ground is they intend to target grade VIII’s - these grades receive the same salary as an Asst Prinipal in the civil servcie and mushroomed in recent years. The reason IMO was so as to allow people from outside the HSE be brought in (grades V to VII are restricted to what is known as the Common Pool). Some have been good - other totally useless.

I’d imagion that they will get an attractive package and in true HSE style it will be at least another 6 mts bfore we hear anymore.