If Fine Gael/Labour won in 2002 would it be better ?

I think ireland had it first taste of real prosperity between 1994 and 2002 and that it was a genuine catch up with europe and us getting the multinationals here …when we really went off the rails was from 2003 -2006 and the damage was done and i don’t think anything can avoid the pain of current days now.

My memory … a little vague of 2002 general election was that fine gael lost crediility as they tried to out Fianna Fail …Fianna Fail …(by giving various what seemed ridiculous give aways such as taxi drivers and eircom shareholders etc ).

I think a copy of fine gael election manifesto for 2002 would be informative …because i think they were driving us to same low tax , growth model and likely they would have made the same mistakes ?

(Personally i think fianna Fail are the more flawed and more corrupt because they have been in power longer …i think the fine gaelers have just not had the same opportunity to screw up …but i look at enda , Michael etc and i am not sure they would have been much better )

The Fine gael leader then was Michael Noonan who is portraying himself as the rock of sense …but would he have been if he was in power at that time ?

Were we driven to this excess by our peasant background and our heads getting turned by out first taste of prosperity ?
were we just the new money …that could not handle it ?

(Personally i think fianna Fail are the more flawed and more corrupt because they have been in power longer …i think the fine gaelers have just not had the same opportunity to screw up …but i look at Inda , Michael etc and i am not sure they would have been much better )

Our Big Problem is our two parties are dominated by family/tribal concerns rather than ideology.

(I may sound like nero whistling while rome burns but just reflecting )

I think if you look at the 2002 manifestos for the three main parties you will see spend, spend, spend in the FF manifest. In the Lab and more so in the FG manifesto you will find some evidence of prudence. An acknowledgment at least that the growth years of '93-'00 were over. FG were even talking about Public Service reform.

But the Irish Electorate were having none of that. They punished the parties that did not promises a never ending fountain of goodies so when 2007 came around none of the parties, most especially FF, did not make any negative noises in their manifestos or campaigns. Even though they all knew the game was up and the money was soon to run out.

The election of FF in 2002 pretty much sealed Irelands fates. But the real blame belongs to the the 770,800 people who gave FF their first preference vote in 2002. Those me-feiners are the true architects of Irelands economic destruction.

The fact the FF is still in power and still survives as an organized political party is completely the blame of the Green Party and the 96,936 who voted for them. The best opportunity to destroy FF as the dominate force in Irish politics was missed last year when the Greens bottled it and decided that a few bike lanes and recycling bins were more important than the political future of the country. Petty parochialism at its finest.

Yes it would

has anybody got a link to those manifestos of labour and fine gael ?

it is hard to believe things could be worse but as i remember it at the time MR noonan was throwing money
all over the place and reducing tax …and labour wanted to borrow more …i don’t think fine gael failed
because they were prudent in that election … would they have had the cojones to not overpay the
public service ?

It is hard to believe they could have done as badly as fianna fail …but i could not rule it out …

I remember an interview with Inda about decentralisation while he rightly criticisied it but wrapped up
with the decentralisation planned to mayo should go ahead as it was viable …it seemed as parish pump
as the others.

FG got bashed in 2002 because Noonan wanted to spend taxpayers money compensating Taxi drivers and Eircom shareholders. It was bizzare, and they rightly got kicked.

I think the previous election was where the damage was done; Noonan was playing catch up by 2002

idiot populism won out - Can someone why was Bertie popular in the first place? before the boom first got boomier I mean

remember the Rainbow coalition postponing building Castlerea prison to save money, there was at least somefiscal prudence then, old age pensions and other goodie bags really took off with Chuckles McCreevy in charge (“When I have it I spend it”)

And FF now want to spend it compensating bonholders… how bizarre.

I have no idea about the OP - its a pointless exercise, really.

Indeed, remember this page one editorial from 1997. Set us on the course to diaster:

https://www.finfacts.ie/artman/uploads/3/Irish_Independent_Payback-Oct272010.jpg

was that 6.5% offer at the bottom for savings account? :smiley: God be with the days!

The “it’s payback time” editorial is a bit infamous, but reflected a justified public mood (see 4 below)

There were four reasons, I think that FG/Lab lost that election

  1. Some people where furious with labour for putting FF into government
  2. Some people where furious at labour for putting FF out of Government and putting Burton in
  3. John Burton was to say the least, a bit suspect on the whole peace process
  4. Most importantly the government finances where is great condition, but they insisted on an unnecessary income levy. To show their soundness on finances, I suspect. Tax rates were still sky high, government revenue was rocketing, but they still taxed the bollocks off me.

The FG/Lab/DL government blew it.

It would have been better, because neither FG nor Labour have anything like the sort of connections to developers that are traditional for FF.

Don’t forget that at least since Haughey’s time, in order to get on the ballot paper as a FF candidate, you had to have proven your worth to the local developers. This you did as a county councillor. Yes, some FG and Labour types also played that game but FFS just look at the record of who’s been caught. The evidence speaks volumes.

FF is not known as the builder’s friend for nothing. Haughey destroyed whatever sense of decency and honour existed in FF. The party deserves nothing short of total eradication from the Irish political landscape.

Yes… do you really believe anyone would have made such a balls of things? We might still be in a mess but nowhere near as bad…

Here are the manifestos…

michaelpidgeon.com/manifestos/byelection.htm

Click on 2002 General Election…

Hard to believe that it could be as bad but the evidence in the manifesto would give a good guideline.

Did the other parties complain about house prices and ask for the re-implementation of the
bacon report ? (The killer is that in 99 the house price issue was identified and then once
policies started to work it was reversed)

I think george lee has said that the Fine gael manifesto was a lot of jiggery pokery …the commitment
to more efficency etc is one of those vague terms that never get touched.

Do we think that in boom time labour would not overpay the public service , they have not
agreed with any of the cuts to date ?

I think fianna fail are rotten and should be out of power but i am not convinced of the vision of the other
guys would have stopped the train wreck at that stage.

Irelands route to prosperity was not via hard work and innovation …it was thru speculation,tax dodging policies and us
getting an unfair share of business at other countries expense and to the benefit of the multinationals.
The funny thing is that internationalist socialist of Sinn fein and labour have supported this.

We produced no Nokias or intels , ryanair is probably most successful irish company and that is really low
cost model rather than any high tech.