Immigration/Population

[Blindjustice]

The unemployment rate for all recent immigrants was 20 per cent though there were large variations by nationality. Among Brazilians 30 per cent of those in the labour force were unemployed, while only 4.5 per cent of German national immigrants were in this category.

cso.ie/en/releasesandpublic … oi/lfnmfl/

Black Africans recorded the highest unemployment rate (36 per cent), and were four times more likely to be unemployed than White Irish individuals.

esri.ie/news/ethnicity-and- … ur-market/

We currently do not have a limit on how many people can enter Ireland from Europe, should there be a quota?
With unemployment rates among non EU migrants so high what can be done to reduce the rates among those already here?
Should we limit migration from non EU sources or be more discriminatory (skilled migration only) than we currently are?

All the above should be informed by a population target, we should have one (whether its above or below the current number).
How does this fit into the current accommodation crisis etc etc?

[dolanbaker]

Or more importantly, “Why do we need to increase the population at all?”
Is it all just to continue infinite growth!

[Blindjustice]

Or more importantly, “Why do we need to increase the population at all?”
Is it all just to continue infinite growth!

Quality of life needs to be the aim, things like the home ownership rate and per capita income growth in real terms need to be the kind of measures
rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/04 … ensus-cso/

Migration can definitely have a role to play and can definitely enrich society in many ways, if done correctly

[Eschatologist]

Or more importantly, “Why do we need to increase the population at all?”
Is it all just to continue infinite growth!

[mr_anderson]

We currently do not have a limit on how many people can enter Ireland from Europe, should there be a quota?

We shouldn’t be giving any social welfare to any non-Irish who hasn’t already contributed sufficient income tax.
EU citizens can be deported under EU law if they are a burden on the host country.
We need to enforce this.

Financially, providing social housing to non-Irish and non-EU citizens is madness at the best of times, let alone when there’s a shortage of accomodation out there.

It’s crippling us.

[mr_anderson]

Black Africans recorded the highest unemployment rate (36 per cent), and were four times more likely to be unemployed than White Irish individuals.

esri.ie/news/ethnicity-and- … ur-market/

It’s actually much higher than that.

2016
African
Unemployed looking for first regular job 63%

cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=EB010&PLanguage=0

We’re actively importing problems.

Look at our AIDS figures.

Just over half of the diagnoses were among men who have sex with men (MSM). This is the largest number of diagnoses ever reported in that grouping.

42% of the group had previously been diagnosed abroad and they were transferring their care to Ireland.

There were 140 heterosexual people (28%) diagnosed with the virus. Nearly two thirds of those cases were among people born in sub-Saharan Africa.

thejournal.ie/hiv-diagnoses-rose-2016-3628641-Oct2017/

[Blindjustice]

Or more importantly, “Why do we need to increase the population at all?”
Is it all just to continue infinite growth!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LyzBoHo5EI

The only issue with this thesis is the differential between living standards and opportunities between places means there will always be a flow, where allowed, to even this differential out. This is seen in the internal migration in Ireland to Dublin or in the UK to London. Scaled up its the movement from other continents towards Europe to improve upon living in a mud hut or hovel etc. We either improve the conditions at the source or be prepared to reduced our standards of living or the other option is limits on migration including refugees. Who can blame someone who strives for a better life? It is exactly what Irish people did historically, apart from the famine period most were what we would now call economic migrants, legal though (in most cases).

My issue is what appears, in my view, to be the driving down of living standards across many western nations. I don’t believe its in the interest of the incumbents, including (and possibly especially) recent migrants as I think the migration in the UK has driven issues like Brexit and anti migrant sentiment. So we can let the population hit its equilibrium but is this the optimum level for a high quality of life?

also great username for a thread like this

[Blindjustice]

Black Africans recorded the highest unemployment rate (36 per cent), and were four times more likely to be unemployed than White Irish individuals.

esri.ie/news/ethnicity-and- … ur-market/

It’s actually much higher than that.

2016
African
Unemployed looking for first regular job 63%

cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire/SelectVarVal/Define.asp?maintable=EB010&PLanguage=0

We’re actively importing problems.

Look at our AIDS figures.

Just over half of the diagnoses were among men who have sex with men (MSM). This is the largest number of diagnoses ever reported in that grouping.

42% of the group had previously been diagnosed abroad and they were transferring their care to Ireland.

There were 140 heterosexual people (28%) diagnosed with the virus. Nearly two thirds of those cases were among people born in sub-Saharan Africa.

thejournal.ie/hiv-diagnoses-rose-2016-3628641-Oct2017/

The health issue is easily dealt with, in Australia HIV testing is part of the health screening. They also do chest x-rays. This should be compulsory.
The unemployment issue is important as it can lead to anti social behaviour and disenchantment with their adopted society. They are here now, we either train them up or accept that they`ll have limited chances to get work and in the future we should accept that we have to train up future migrants from these groups or filter them. This isnt 1800s USA where you didnt need an education to get a job. They are coming into advanced Western economies where young people with degrees struggle to get secure work and pay their rent.

[mr_anderson]

The health issue is easily dealt with, in Australia HIV testing is part of the health screening. They also do chest x-rays. This should be compulsory.
The unemployment issue is important as it can lead to anti social behaviour and disenchantment with their adopted society. They are here now, we either train them up or accept that they`ll have limited chances to get work and in the future we should accept that we have to train up future migrants from these groups or filter them. This isnt 1800s USA where you didnt need an education to get a job. They are coming into advanced Western economies where young people with degrees struggle to get secure work and pay their rent.

The whole thing is easily dealt with - just enforce basic common sense.
For starters, we need to start deporting.
When someone gets refused asylum, we don’t deport them.
They end up staying as a permanent burden on the state.

As you rightly point out, this isn’t America in the 1800’s.
In fact it’s the very opposite.
Back then, America needed a workforce for their factories.
Education wasn’t a particular priority, rather it was the ability to work manual labour.

Nowadays, the West doesn’t have factories. If you don’t have a degree you won’t get a job.
Even if you do manage to secure employment, the chances are it will be in a position that’s up for extinction as AI takes over.
We don’t need to import taxi drivers or truck drivers when the whole industry is going to be autonomous within the coming decade.

The current system is mindboggingly daft.

[Eschatologist]

Nowadays, the West doesn’t have factories. If you don’t have a degree you won’t get a job.
Even if you do manage to secure employment, the chances are it will be in a position that’s up for extinction as AI takes over.

This is simply not true, as I’m sure you know. There are many important jobs for which a degree is unnecessary. Not least building houses. But also basic service industries like hospitality. These are the jobs least threatened by AI.

[Eschatologist]

The only issue with this thesis…

I don’t see any issue with the thesis, you’re making a separate point, which is presumably that even though a temporary (in civilisational terms) increase to 11 billion is both inevitable and desirable, it’s the distribution and composition that matters to you.

It’s important to separate these issues.

[mr_anderson]

Nowadays, the West doesn’t have factories. If you don’t have a degree you won’t get a job.
Even if you do manage to secure employment, the chances are it will be in a position that’s up for extinction as AI takes over.

This is simply not true, as I’m sure you know. There are many important jobs for which a degree is unnecessary. Not least building houses. But also basic service industries like hospitality. These are the jobs least threatened by AI.

Go into a McDonalds and ask how many have university degrees or are currently in 3rd level and you’ll see hands shoot up.
Everybody has a degree now. It’s effectively a basic standard.
Those without have a much more difficult time securing employment.

Furthermore, there’s going to be a massive surplus of labour when driving jobs are obsolete, so the pool of available Irish for these jobs will increase in the coming years.
Incidentally, housing is going to be subject to AI very shortly too.

There are going to be few industries not touched by AI.

[dolanbaker]

Nowadays, the West doesn’t have factories. If you don’t have a degree you won’t get a job.
Even if you do manage to secure employment, the chances are it will be in a position that’s up for extinction as AI takes over.

This is simply not true, as I’m sure you know. There are many important jobs for which a degree is unnecessary. Not least building houses. But also basic service industries like hospitality. These are the jobs least threatened by AI.

All these service industries can simply employ from the “unskilled” unemployed already here, there’s no need to import any more people.

[Skippy_3]

The whole thing is easily dealt with - just enforce basic common sense.
For starters, we need to start deporting.
When someone gets refused asylum, we don’t deport them.

This is also completely untrue.

Deportations/Removals from the
State
Approximately 4,446 persons were
deported/removed from the State in 2016.
This figure comprises some 3,951 non EU
nationals who were refused entry into the
State at ports of entry and were returned
to the place from where they had come. In
addition, 428 failed asylum seekers and
illegal migrants were deported from the
State, 67 EU nationals were returned to
their countries of origin on foot of an EU
Removal Order and 42 asylum seekers
were transferred under the Dublin
Regulation to the EU member state in
which they first applied for asylum.

[wii4miinow]

The whole thing is easily dealt with - just enforce basic common sense.
For starters, we need to start deporting.
When someone gets refused asylum, we don’t deport them.

This is also completely untrue.

Deportations/Removals from the
State
Approximately 4,446 persons were
deported/removed from the State in 2016.
This figure comprises some 3,951 non EU
nationals who were refused entry into the
State at ports of entry and were returned
to the place from where they had come. In
addition, 428 failed asylum seekers and
illegal migrants were deported from the
State

, 67 EU nationals were returned to
their countries of origin on foot of an EU
Removal Order and 42 asylum seekers
were transferred under the Dublin
Regulation to the EU member state in
which they first applied for asylum.

Not exactly in the way I think Mr. Anderson was interpreting. I mean that we have and continue to keep people in the Direct Provision process for many years and they are then refused eventually their request for assymum but other legal reasons mean they can stay. Many such examples. Do you have those stats to habd?

[mr_anderson]

Not exactly in the way I think Mr. Anderson was interpreting. I mean that we have and continue to keep people in the Direct Provision process for many years and they are then refused eventually their request for assymum but other legal reasons mean they can stay. Many such examples. Do you have those stats to habd?

Bingo.

This is a typical story.

Eric’s mother, Leena Mei Mei Xue, has been living in Ireland for 12 years.
She had attempted to gain residence but failed and a deportation order was served against her in 2015.
Her latest appeal against the decision was rejected earlier this year.

irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/schoolboy-born-raised-ireland-faces-13432970

The asylum process should be no more than 1 month.
The current system is bonkers.

[Skippy_3]

The asylum process should be no more than 1 month.
The current system is bonkers.

LOL!

Investigate inevitably complicated stories involving human rights abuses in obscure parts of the world, grant leave for appeal, all in line with Ireland’s obligations under international law - all in 20 working days!

Yes the current system generally takes too long. But a month is absurd.

[FreeFallin]

What investigation can actually take place? Many don’t have ID, make up elaborate stories etc. How can anyone investigate a story where say a Chinese person from a rural part of the country arrives here and claims persecution in their village by the local authorities. Who can really say it happened?
It’s impossible.

There are several thousand asylum claims in Ireland every year. I think the numbers are running at 50% higher than 2017. A few hundred get deported every year, most of them are people who voluntarily decide to leave. This despite over 90% consistently getting rejected in their initial asylum claim.
If you really want to stay here, you are practically certain to do so.

[paracetomol]

independent.ie/irish-news/n … 04917.html

A Polish woman who seems to have gone on the housing list the minute she arrived in Ireland. This has to stop as well. Anecdotally I know of several people who have acquired social housing in Ireland who own homes in their native countries; it’s very difficult to check. You cannot simply rock up to a country and be allowed access to a scarce resource like social housing, and non-Irish people are very over-represented on our housing lists.

[Bubblecovery]

*Who Lives here belongs here.
Irish people emigrated in the past so we should have open borders today and forever.
We should not be concerned about the welfare state collapsing, wage suppression, housing price spikes, crime, cultural harmony, alienation, or environmental degradation, those are lies from the daily mail, if you are concerned about those things you are a racist/supremacist/bigot.
Those meat plants need more minimum wage workers dammit.
*

The above is the actual point of view of Ireland’s ruling class, through either inculcated belief or social pressure/fear. Basically Boyd Barrett and Coveney are 80% aligned on this, they only disagree on speed and procedural stuff.

Yesterday I heard from a very reliable source of a Polish guy who complained to his local councillor about houses in his estate being block bought up to house middle eastern settlers. She called the Guards on him and interviewed all the people on the petition he had created. He is now considering emigrating. People are oblivious to whats happening in Ireland because the media are corrupt.