Indo: The property market: It's game on as good omens abound

[the_very_man]

@namawinelake

So might Stephen Rae offer a refund to the c 10,000 home buyers since January this year…?]

I think the fact that there have been 10k homebuyers this year speaks for itself.

@catbear

@the very man

Finance may

be sticky for a few years yet but dont ever, ever, ever underestimate sentiment.
Don’t underestimate the amount of empties too, plus the increase of multi bedroom homes in desirable locations as more siblings sell off the familial homestead once their old dears have passed on.

The empties are a canard.

1. They arent on the market and ,
2. They arent in the areas they’re wanted in.
3. Relying on people dying is hardly a new input to the market.
4. Market falls are being cushioned up by forebearance and lack of political will; even for BTLs.

Look at Longford.
Doesnt matter how many empty estates there are there, they dont translate directly into the (Pinsters Holy Grail) of a 3/4 bed in SCD.
Sure, you can add numbers, prices, sq footage and compare but you cannot substitute one for the other.
Quantify that.

Yes its crooked, yes its wrong, yes its a scam, yes youve been royally fucked.
But (I’ll get shot for this) its over, or close to being over.
They got away with it.

If theres one more year of this I’ll be surprised.

I noticed on needles diary (a thread some mentioned in passing) that s/he seemed to be moving toward a story of a couple in their late-30s early-40s with several BTLs (with well in excess of a million in debt, needle?) who have continued to collect rents while negotiating down their BTL mortgages successfully.
I’d imagine that he was going to continue with anecdotes about their continued Tiger living replete with weekends abroad, three weeks in Europe for summer and childminders and house cleaners.

S/he probably knows other professional couples prepared to pay ‘whatever’ to get a particular house in NCD because of its proximity to parents.
No sign of financial stress or difficulties in raising mortgages there either.

But what do I know…

[jxbr]

@namawinelake

You really shouldn’t be so down on the (S)Indo. The new editor of the Indo has today issued a personal message to you all

“The readers of the Independent don’t just buy a newspaper, they tap in to a reliable and trusted news source. Every day, you, our reader, join a community of people who require the highest standards and demand quality journalism.”

So wmight Stephen Rae offer a refund to the c 10,000 home buyers since January this year when the Sindo and Indo went on an all-out “buy now with confidence, we’re at the bottom”. With prices down an average of 6% across the country and the loss on an average €150,000 home being €9,000 or €90m in total which might sound like a lot but it is just half the loss that Independent News and Media declared for the first half of 2012.

The new editor also says “My commitment to you, our reader, is that our overriding emphasis will always be on quality content, insight and fearless opinion.”

So does that mean that Sam Smyth whose last article in the Indo was on 25th May 2012, who has been “ostracised” according to Vincent Browne. Does that mean that after a 3.5 month gap, we might see a new article from Sam?

independent.ie/national-news … 25654.html

Somehow, I think the answer to both is in the immortal words attributed to Ray Burke “will we f**k”

Very true and your post on the Sindo puffery was, as usual, very good.

[catbear]

@the very man

But what do I know…

Good question. But as you’re new to the pin your knowledge can only improve.

[JohnnyTheFox]

@catbear

@the very man

But what do I know…

Good question. But as you’re new to the pin your knowledge can only improve.

Or maybe not…

[CdeB]

@the very man

Here in…Luxembourg(?)… I read about the UK market

Am I the only one who pictured you typing that, then getting up to look out the window to see just what country you’d woken up in this morning?

[Wannabeowner]

Is it just me or are they now giving out about responsible lending where they used to give out about irresponsible lending on behalf of the banks?

Anyway there was a pretty spot on post here a few days ago that people have learned nothing and if the banks were lending they’d be borrowing.

[Stapler]

Is it responsible lending though?

We have yesterdays story of a couple buying a house for nearly half a million, with 35k down, while the pin is littered with stories of people saving multiples of the stress tested mortgage repayment each month being refused because they have a few kids.

To my mind, a savings track record should be weighted far more heavily in deliberations than it is at the moment. Landlord’s cleaner would be a long time getting a loan around here even though she sounds like the sort that would never miss a payment. The president of UCC on the other hand…

[Tyler]

@london_irish

And if you want to jump into the recovering market now, you gotta man up…

independent.ie/business/pers … 26231.html

First-time home buyers have been warned not to have children if they want to get mortgage approval as childcare costs are seen as reducing borrowers’ ability to repay loans.

It is estimated that lenders reduce the amount they will lend to potential first-time buyers by up €50,000 for every child in a family, it has emerged.

Karl Deeter, of Irish Mortgage Brokers, said it is nearly impossible to get a home loan if there are children, especially if there is only one income earner in the household. “Hold off having kids if you want a mortgage,” Mr Deeter said.

He explained that the only banks lending to first-time buyers are Bank of Ireland and its subsidiary ICS, and AIB.

KBC Bank is doing some lending, but Permanent TSB, EBS and its subsidiary Haven, National Irish Bank and Ulster Bank are all shut for first-time buyer lending, he said.

This left the banks that are lending in a strong position to dictate terms, and the expense of raising children was proving to be a big turn-off.

"If you are thinking of buying a house or having kids then go for the house first.

“Having children reduces your ability to borrow with every bank that is lending,” the broker warned.

Or having children vastly reduces you ability to pay back a maxxed-out mortgage.

This attitude by the banks makes no sense, as most couples will normally want to have children and most are not going to want to wait too long to start one, and thus immediately put the mortgage/home at risk!

Unless the thinking is that the mortgage repayments will so large as to scare the couple involved. So they’ll desist from starting a family (thus preserving the banks repayments).

Its like crude social engineering…

In contrast if you are on welfare you get more money per kid and are entitled to a larger rent allowance/bigger house

Sure what can go wrong

[Inis_Man]

@the Indo

First-time home buyers have been warned not to have children if they want to get mortgage approval as childcare costs are seen as reducing borrowers’ ability to repay loans.

It is estimated that lenders reduce the amount they will lend to potential first-time buyers by up €50,000 for every child in a family, it has emerged.

Karl Deeter, of Irish Mortgage Brokers, said it is nearly impossible to get a home loan if there are children, especially if there is only one income earner in the household. “Hold off having kids if you want a mortgage,” Mr Deeter said.

What’s in a name, eh, Mr. Deter??

[lord_vader]

so you should waste your life paying for a mortgage? Would it ever dawn on people if u cant afford the house and raise your kids maybe you should wait unti lthe house price falls to a more realistic level.

[Inis_Man]

10/10/07

“There has been a definite slowdown in the residential sector and that was to be expected. We were never going to have a sitaution where property prices would continue to grow by up to 20 per cent per annum.

…]

“Property will continue to appreciate but it will be at far more moderate levels and there is likely to be less investment amongst speculators in the residential property sector.

Rock on Marie

Today’s Indo, praising the bould Marie:

independent.ie/business/commercial-property/marie-comes-up-trumps-with-market-predictions-3241226.html

“At a time of uncertainty in the world’s economies and financial markets it’s nice to see that at least one economist can the future – even if it is only for nine months.”

Eh, can what the future?
avoid? go back to? ignore?

[ps200306]

@Inis Man

10/10/07

“There has been a definite slowdown in the residential sector and that was to be expected. We were never going to have a sitaution where property prices would continue to grow by up to 20 per cent per annum.

…]

“Property will continue to appreciate but it will be at far more moderate levels and there is likely to be less investment amongst speculators in the residential property sector.

Rock on Marie

Today’s Indo, praising the bould Marie:

independent.ie/business/commercial-property/marie-comes-up-trumps-with-market-predictions-3241226.html

“At a time of uncertainty in the world’s economies and financial markets it’s nice to see that at least one economist can the future – even if it is only for nine months.”

Eh, can what the future?
avoid? go back to? ignore?

I think it’s American slang – “can the future”, i.e. put it in the trash can and go back to the past … and those lovely bubbly prices.