Ireland to Issue AT LEAST €18.4bn debt in 2009

That is over €4000 debt per person in the state and that was based on flawed budget projections back in October .

At least €20bn of debt will issue in 2009 although €5bn of that is a retirement of existing debt to be replaced by considerably more expensive debt in its place :frowning:

This means that only about €15bn of new new debt will issue in my opinion .

**However Brian Lenihan did not answer all the question asked !!! … -4&Page=22

Deputy Richard Bruton asked the Minister for Finance if the unexpected shortfall in taxation has led to the placing of additional loans by the National Treasury Management Agency during 2008; **the volume and cost premium over the European Central Bank rate in each case; **and the schedule of loan placing planned over the next twelve months.

Minister for Finance Based on Budget 2009 projections, the NTMA has advised the market of its funding plans for 2009 which includes a €5 billion bond repayment in April 2009. As such a gross debt issuance requirement of €18.4 billion next year is currently being planned.

Brian Lenihan is the worst Finance Minister in the history of the state.


We’re now a basket case economy.

Our GDP is augmented because of the presence of mulitnationals. And due to our appalling tax take, our GDP is dwindling. Fast.

If we take a more realistic GDP and calculate the debt/GDP ratio based on that, you’re in for a nasty, nasty surprise.

IMF here we come.

There’s no Irish good-will from Britain/Europe/America this time round.

This time, we’re on our own.

Sort out yer own mess lads.

finding the actual GDP figure is quite achallenge, as such its buried at the bottom of this years budget
=€190B for 2007.

So we are borrowing 10% GDP next year, IF the bad news does not get any worse.
wich is >3x Euo limit.

Holy fuck

Its official, ireland is super fucked!!! so in the next 4 years will we see the following:

a firesale of state assets to the lowest bidders,

people on the move ( but to where? all English speaking economies seem to be in the shit at this stage)

bankruptcies will rocket causing much angst and further bank failures

sweeping patriotic cuts particularly aimed at the lower income groups so poverty will soar

the state will be unable to borrow $$ and will be invited to leave the euro

massive inflation as the state attempts to print its way out of the depression ( as the US is doing right now)

Emergence of extreme right wing groups who will direct their violence against anybody who is not white, or has a strange accent

is this already set in stone?

They may issue it but will anybody buy it?

Yeah, next year alone.

You can knock a couple of 10’s of billions off that €190bn figure for a start.

There’s no plan. No vision for recovery and no hope for the ordinary man on the street.

There’s nothing but a bunch of class A gombeens sitting on their fat arses in Leinster House.

The country’s future is being mortgaged away and those making the decisions know damn well they won’t have to pay for it.

This generation (i.e. those aged 0 to 35) are the ones who’ll be expected to pick up the tab for these clowns.

Student protests over fees are the least of this government’s worries.


The Irish government CDS spread has gone exponential. It’s getting to the stage now that investing in General Motors gives better risk:reward ratios than investing in Irish gubberment bonds.

Banking fears, incompetent economic “management”, daily job losses, consumer/corporation tax receipts that have fallen off a cliff and a food/agriculture industry melt-down are not helping the situation one bit.

The country’s out of control. The priority is personal and political. The gombeen leaders are cuddling up amongst each other and hiding behind the pulpit in fear of a full-scale revolt. Nobody is willing/able to step up to the plate and take responsibility/show leadership. Patriotism my arse.

Orwellian pigs the lot of 'em.

GROSS DEBT issuance will be over 10% of GNP in 2009 . Easy one that :frowning:

The government

  1. Has not a fucking clue , only 5 FFers have been found in the wild with a functioning brain in 2008 :frowning:
  2. Has no concept of real GNP shrinkage which is occuring at a ferocious rate , serial wealth destruction …because the useless morons concentrate on GDP all the time .

It is POSSIBLE right now , and PROBABLE in the absence of a plan to lop another €5bn off spending in 2009 , that NET DEBT issuance will be over 10% of GNP in BOTH 2009 and 2010 .

I don’t for a minute believe the figures on tax take. Honestly, I’d take 15% off (for starters) to get it closer to the real figure.

Also, if Ireland has to sell it’s assets, what do we have? Would it be something like: the pension fund, land and real estate, treasures in the national museums, art/antiques…things like that? It would be a very bad time to go to the open market with this stuff if we need to cover loans from the IMF.

Oh and to Biffo and Mary Coughlan:

Have a happy fucking Christmas.
^ Nero fiddled while Rome burnt.
^ What are you going to do about it?

Please repeat the mantra - Ireland is different, Ireland is different…

In all normal economies GDP = GNP (give or take a few billion)

In Ireland GDP != GNP.

Most years GDP is a least 10% greater than GNP because of the multi-national tax evasion sector. At least 10% of Irish GDP is repatriated multi-national tax evasion gains (sorry, the upside of regulatory arbitrage).

So Ireland is at least 10% more fucked than you thought it was.

And that’s an absolute10%.

whats the figure for GNP? i’m no expert, but I read that it was more accuarate. how does ireland’s GNP per head of population comapre with other eu countries like UK, Germany, France etc. Is it higher or lower?

Actually I was wrong…more like 15% last year…

190B GDP v 161B GNP

So its 10% of GDP and almost 12% of GNP

the students shouldnt be worried about the fees they should be worried about what will cost them the most!

Seriously get a grip.

Uh, oh. This doesn’t sound like good news.

Have you looked at Irish government CDS spreads recently?

Thought not.

Read the FT recently?

Thought not.

And below is the GDP/GNP ratio for all Eurozone countries (minus Malta, plus USA & UK) for the last 10 years.

Note Luxembourg: also home to many US multinationals (such as PayPal et. al.) since their VAT rate is the lowest in Europe.

Anyway, the point is that quoting debt/GDP ratios for an economy like Ireland’s is dishonest at best.

That FT article is the front page news on now.

Uh oh^2.

Every government in the world is hitting the markets.

I guess it’s law of supply and demand.