Irexit / Eirexit, call it want you want. They want out!

ireland
eu

#1

The ambassador quoted is Ray Bassett, who spent precisely 0 days in his career working on EU policy. He worked mostly in Foreign Affair’s old Anglo-Irish Division with his most significant positions being minding the shop in Belfast after the GFA and ambassador to Canada.

A respectable career no doubt but Ireland’s equivalent to Ivan Rodgers he is not. Professionally, he has no more insight into the EU than a random Principal Officer in the Department of Culture, Heritage and the Gaeltacht.

His lack of EU knowledge and experience is seen in the reports that he has been paid to produce for the UK-based, anti-EU advocacy organisation Policy Exchange. They are littered with simple errors of fact on the EU and how it operates. Faulty premises inevitably led to fanciful conclusions.

He should not be relied on as an authority on matters EU. A less charitable person might describe him as a charlatan.


#2

I would be surprised if this topic gets 20 posts!


#3

You do realise this is a property discussion forum for people who aren’t “authorities” on property ? Are we charlatans so ?


#4

Oh, absolutely, but only if we’re claiming to be authorities and paid for it. There are some professionals on here speaking in a personal capacity (no doubt), and a lot of opinionated people (myself to the fore), but I don’t know that any of us are claiming particular expertise. That a random collection of amateurs could see the crash coming, predict roughly the severity in general and in relation to specfic actions taken (see the day/week of the guarantee for example), tells you how corrupted by fees the experts were (hint, which one of them, apart from maybe Ronan Lyons, talked down their paymaster’s prospects?).

I view Mr. Bassett in much the same light. Perhaps not a charlatan, but maybe corrupt?


#5

You don’t have to be in favour of Irexit to acknowledge the reality that there’s certainly a coherent argument against ‘ever closer’ political union…the Irish version of the GFC itself was partly as a direct result of membership of the euro along with interest rates being set with an eye very firmly on the German economy to the exclusion of everybody else.

To paraphrase somebody else you either have a country or you don’t…


#6

A no deal Brexit may force the Mainland EU to consider Ireland as a “remote” exclave and impose customs controls on all products as they cannot guarantee that they are exclusively Irish/EU.
This is a situation that will sit very uncomfortably with many here.


#7

This gang likely has links to the anti-EU strand of roman catholicism.


#8

The what now??


#9

The strand that doesn’t like the EU liberal agenda.

@dolanbaker
I don’t think there’ll be internal borders within the EU, that’s Daily Mail scaremongering. To institute internal borders between Ireland and anyone else would amount to as much a dismantling of the single market as allowing the UK to have their cake and eat it.


#10

No, this is my own opinion based on the fact that there is a greater chance of “no deal” than “bad deal”, it will depend on which border is the least important, the one to sacrifice.
The ROI - NI, GB - NI or ROI & UK - rest of Europe. The ROI - NI border will be the one defended the most by the Irish, the GB - NI border will be defended by the UK, but how hard will the EU defend the ROI - EU border?


#11

There’s quite a religious undertone to the adherents of the project of Ever Closer Union. There appears to be no room for heterodoxy. When the Eastern countries object to migration strategy they’re portrayed almost as heretics.

The only way views like you put forward would get openly aired within the institutions of the EU would be in parliament (pesky democracy eh!), in a barely attended session where no real engagement with the issue would occur. The nature of the only forum where such views get aired allow those lone and unorthodox opinions to appear even lonelier and loonier.

I just don’t see how the EU can continue as is, it has a disconnect to its citizenry and responds sclerotically to any crisis.

Edit - despite the modernity of the project there’s something very Po-faced, traditionally Irish about how the OP is put together. ‘If you object to the EU that means you’re somebody like Ray Bassett, you don’t want to be somebody like that do you ? That’s shameful !’


#12

Ireland has generally been a very conformist society. As a nation there has often been a fear of standing apart from the crowd…and the crowd has proved itself fickle and easily turned. The 1916 Rebels were initially reviled by the same people who subsequently revered them. Uniform religiosity was embraced until such time as it wasnt…to be replaced by uniform (post modern?) liberalism. Unlike elsewhere in Europe, there has never been a discussion engaged in by factions holding/offering opposing visions for the future of Irish society. All mainstream participants hold the same outlook. Hence we have tended to get the leftovers of what went on elsewhere 30 years after it is relevant…the current uniform embrace of 1970s liberalism is basically similarly unreflective of what is currently taking place elsewhere in the world.

I was watching a travel documentary this evening which referred to the decline of the Soviet Union. As late as 1988 nobody had an inkling that the regime was on the way out. By the end of 1989 it was finished. You’d wonder whether the EU will go the same way in the not so distant future.


#13

Any good? What was the name of it?


#14

Not sure what happened but I’m not the OP and I certainly didn’t start the thread to have a pop at someone.

I responded to a now deleted first post which quoted Bassett.

My point in replying was to challenge the unthinking assumption that his career as a diplomat gave him special insight into the EU.

He may or may not be correct that leaving the Eu is a great idea but I don’t think he should be relied on merely because he was an ambassador.


#15

From the Aussie thread:

Worth remembering the EU got Irish people on the hook for all sorts of horrible investments that failed


#16

Excellent points above. Well made. There is something about Irish culture and the Roman Catholic Church, or Fianna Fail, or now the EU. Where dissenting voices have no merit, challenge is seen as anarchy, and you must row in behind the conventional wisdom, or else you always know where the door is…


#17

The problem with the EU is that if the EU didn’t exist we would need to build it to solve the real world problems that the EU was built to solve. Oh yes, it would be called something different, would have different wording of treaties and the structures would be a little different but would for all intents and purposes be the same thing. Why do I say this? Let’s take as an example just one area of EU competence: Aviation.

Let’s look at the European continent. Depending on how you count it there are thirty to forty countries in Europe. To fly a plane between country A and B one needs a pilot’s license. This license must be recognized by both countries. This means that there must be some type of treaty or agreement between these countries. Yes, there is the Chicago convention which covers international aviation, but this doesn’t give legal force to the ideas in that treaty.

Despite what the screwballs in the UK think, it is not possible to buy a 3D printer, print out a replica Spitfire and fly to Brandenburg Airport while brandishing a copy of the Chicago convention.

There needs to be a legal agreement between the countries to cover license and safety standards. Now if there is no EU/EASA overseen by the ECJ to organize the treaties and standards then there would need to be a mesh of treaties between each and every single country in continental Europe. This means 400+ international treaties; 400+ quangos governing standards; 400+ courts to resolve disputes; 400+ set of judges appointed. Yes, as crazy as this sounds, this is how it works outside the EU.

Repeat for the hundreds of different areas of EU competence. Thousands upon thousands of international treaties; thousands of sets of regulation and policies being written by bureaucrats and specialists in quangos; thousands of largely secret courts, all being done without any Parliament or Counselor’s oversight. These are your options, take your pick which is preferable.

After decades of people banging on about how awful the EU is, not a single one of them has been able to come up with any alternative as to how to do things. Literally no one in the UK that has been banging on about Brexit for decades has come up with anything resembling a workable solution to any one of the areas that the EU has responsibility for. No one.

The EU is awful is it? Okay, so describe out how to do things differently … Silence… tumbleweed …

Any fool can condemn and complain and most fools do.


#18

I’m known as the anarchist by some in my workplace :laughing:

Obviously I’m not but don’t take offense from such a simplistic tag.


#19

I can’t help feel that this Eirxit is a panic move by Irish MI5 agents. While Britain and Ireland were in the EU they were essentially on the same side economically and politically. The agents could say they were working for Ireland by helping Britain defeat Republicans. Post-Brexit you’ll have to choose between Britain or the EU.


#20

Yeah, given the way the UK has so far conducted Brexit (dirty money donors, ignoring the law, disinformation campaigns in the media, trying to bypass Barnier, telling us we should get back in our place), I would not be surprised if there’s at least ‘encouragement’ for the Irexit thing. It’s certainly a curious thing - sucking up to our former colonial masters and following them slavishly :neutral_face: