Irexit / Eirexit, call it want you want. They want out!

ireland
eu

#61

Wasn’t the regime of folly works to keep people from rebelling entirely from not having security of tenure or any property rights under penal laws?

It’s not till the Land League that we see a large scale transfer of ownership of Ireland back to Irish people.

edit: a word


#62

Maybe but what was your point win the context of the thread! :smiley:


#63

I’d be interested to see the plan on offer from Irexit - I’d like to hope that it would be better than the Brexit plan (not a high barrier I admit). In particular I’d be interested in which currency we would use - this is an issue that Brexit doesn’t have to deal with - but we do.


#64

I did? Oh yeah, I did! But with a purpose, schools, hospitals, old people’s homes (something more pressing on me now than it was). Rather than bail out the banks, bail out the financing of these projects in Bank Nua. Something like that, anyway, distance makes all ideas seem stupid and prescient.

And could it be anything else? I remember visas for all parts of Europe. I remember applying weeks in advance for foreign exchange from the banks and then queuing to get it. I remember empty shelves in shops, pushing the car to a petrol station, and power cuts. I remember no coal, because our imports still went through Liverpool (all of them) and the dockers there were on strike. I remember 90% tax rates. I remember cold, hungry and poor; child abuse in silence, alcoholism unspoken, unhappy marriages with no exit. Before there was moslem racial profiling for terrorism, there was Irish - stopped at the airport, gun squad called round because a group of Irish guys living together was ‘suspicious’.

I’m not saying the EU fixed all of these, but membership of a wider community, one that didn’t disdain us as stupid Micks helped.


#65

The gist of what you quote is “not applicable from henceforth” not “nullify all prior”. If you want to see just how creative these Enarque in Brussels can be when they have to I’d recommended reading up on just how creative Brussels and Bonn was in 1990 when the Germans rammed through the Einigungsvertrag reunification treaty against everyones wishes. The Four Powers. The EC. Pretty much everyone. But Kohl was going to win his Federal election come hell or high water.

There are well worn mechanisms both in the various EEC/EC/EU treaties, Civil Law and International Law to deal with Brexit. There is even an Article in the current foundation treaty to deal with such an eventuality. So all the current very deliberate obstructionism coming out of Brussels is purly a vast entrenched bureaucracy trying to protect its power and its privileges. Nothing more. And the only reason why the fonctionnaires superior has got away with it so far is the power vacuum caused by the collapse of the traditional Berlin Paris power axis in the Council of Ministers. The EU institution that should actually be driving the negotiating process given the legal distribution of powers by EU treaty and law.

But as the German political establishment has been completely destroyed by the unwillingness to give up power by one person, Merkel, we have the current omnishambles. Come next March everything will continue much as it had before regarding the UK , trade etc, but there is no knowing where the truly frightening political train wreck that is German domestic politics will end. Its reached the stage where the lefty establishment media are trying to whip up a campaign to have the second most popular political party banned because its “fascist”. Exactly the same way the same people claimed the CSU was “fascist” in the 1970’s. But the same people complain when the SED inspired Linke is investigated by the BfV…

This will not end well. It never does with the Germans. The French and Italians domestic politics on the other hand, its par for the course.

Its reached the stage where the Schröder era is looking like a golden age in of magisterial statesmanship in retrospect. And he is now a fully paid up (and bought) sock puppet of Putin and the Russian Oligarchs.

So all those in Ireland who are hitching their future to supporting the EU status que come what may - be very afraid. We have reached one of those rhyming stages in the cycles of history. And its not a happy ending.


#66

I think during depths of the bust McWilliams inked some blank pages with some notion about Ireland becoming a Venice of the Atlantic etc…

Venice came to exist after the sack of Ravenna forced people out onto islands in the marshes to escape attack.

After Brexit I reckon the next biggest event in our neighbourhood is serious civil disorder in England sending people fleeing our way.


#67

If this has been said already, I missed it. If it hasn’t been said until now, why not? :neutral_face:

Maybe commentary thus has been headed under the High Paid Bankers, Rocket scientists & Co demographic windfall mythology, but even a sizeable cohort of ex-pats would be problematic.

Nor do I believe it would take civil disobedience in a post-Brexit UK for a population inflow in the short term that would have wide ranging and onerous repercussions.

I think in Ireland it is forgotten so easily the volume of population on the next island and that is has only been a matter of geography and history that acts as a barrier which of late appears to be less and less restrictive.

Further, it does not require much, even 1% of the UK population (roughly over half a million depending on whose population figures you believe) so in an event where only 0.1% moves toward Ireland in the short term (being weeks/months) would be highly problematic to absorb. What strange irony Ireland might face.

What’s the latest count on the empties? BD


#68

Why was this the first story from times passed that came to mind when I read the above…

The great “refugees fleeing the North” fiasco of the early days of the Troubles.

thejournal.ie/northern-refugees-ireland-state-papers-1820942-Dec2014/

Not to distract from those genuinely fleeing in terror the near pogroms of '69 / '70 when things looked very very hairy for a while for those whole lived on the wrong side of the 'Peace Walls" but by 1972 it was widely known to be one big joke in the 26 Counties. Hence quickly forgotten.


#69

Personally, I believe that scare stories of civil unrest in the UK causing refugees to flee the country are farcical, in most areas there are absolutely no reason for unrest.
There has been a steady “white flight” in progress in many of the larger towns and cities for decades, I don’t see how Brexit will change this dynamic.

That’s not to say that there won’t be violence due to ethnic tensions, but this could flare up at any time, it won’t be triggered by Brexit.

It’s not as if on B-day, the whole country goes into meltdown!


#70

True, there’s been tensions for decades in many areas across England but Brexit has been a unifying banner under which a lot of disparate groups have coalesced.

The London orientated British media certainly didn’t pick up on the weekly petrol bomb attacks on mosques in the northeast in the months after the Arena Bombing. They only covered such attacks when someone got injured, like the surgeon who had worked on the arena survivors who got stabbed outside his mosque.

What I find worrying is that UKip is openly flirting with the likes of Britain First, which has become an umbrella group for the most desperate instincts, and more worryingly is they’ve toned down their social media profile. They know how to reach their target audience now. They designed themselves along Ulster unionist lines with a separate “active” branch of ex-military veterans. I’ve even had a police officer tell me that no one in his district trusts recruits from the community relations ethnic quota.

The rifts are there and they’re ripe for exploitation.


#71

Ah, the usual lefty New Statesman / Guardian fed fantasies. I remember when they stopped publishing a detailed breakdown of “racist” attacks that came within the remit of the Race Relations Act et al. Yes, the majority of attacks were on Asians, but it was disproportionately Muslim Asians attacks on Hindu / Sikh Asians. This awkward facts on the ground did not fit the lefty media narrative so quickly buried. Now there is a strong gang / crime element to these attacks but that raises another awkward fact. Non-muslim asians have a higher than average labour participation rate whereas muslim asians have the lowest labour participation rate / highest state dependency rate. Apart from the white underclass that is.

The probability of 1981 style civil disturbances in the UK due to Brexit is exactly nil. For a start its not the 1980’s. Very different universe. Not too many vegan restaurants or fair trade cafes in Brixton in 1981. Now the probability that agent provocateurs on the extreme left will try to stir up something like the Poll Tax Riots is very high. Because thats what those streets fascists do. Who all seem to be white middle class suburbanites. The most “oppressed” class in the UK. The only political group that is more white middle class suburban than the Liberal Democrats is Momentum. And the SWP.


#72

Were you in a coma in August 2011 ?
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots

No one is saying that a Brixton Vegan Lib Dem is going to start burning down buildings because of a delay getting to their Dordogne holiday home. The next riots in the UK could well start in some bigoted provincial shithole, like Portsmouth, or a northern apartheid city. The rioting won’t be “due to Brexit” solely but riots sometimes have multiple contributory factors and the as yet unknown consequences of a failed Brexit will turn up the temperature on those factors, e.g. Austerity

I wondered where the phrase “Broken Britain” came from
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broken_Britain
It turns out the Sun originated it, the Tories utilised it to get into power, then they just broke it some more.


#73

You obviously were not around in 1981 then. Very different from 2011. Which was a straight policing balls up by the Met. Utter incompetence by the most senior officers who let the situation spiral out of control. Now 1981, that was a very different barrel of molotov cocktails…

There have been several very good documentaries post 1981 and post 2011 detailing who did what and why. 1981 was very much due to social alienation. 2011 was straight up opportunistic criminality. Which the many thousands of the those found guilty of criminal offenses in 2011 will attest to. There was broad sympathy at the time for those who took to the streets in 1981, hence the changes in the “Sus Law”. For example. After 2011, zero sympathy for the rioters. Which is why so many went to prison.

There will be riots in the future. They will have nothing to do with Brexit. It will be the usual shit stirrers doing what they do best, stirring up shit. It has a long and illustrious tradition by this stage going back centuries. Its a tradition, innit?


#74

“Extreme Shopping” as Richard Starkey put it. :laughing: Now, R.S. is a bit of a prick, but in this, he was spot on.


#75

While I have sympathy with people who wish to see a democratic vote observed and adhered to as well as taking a degree of pleasure from the fact that it has caused your average Guardianista to lose their mind, there is also a certain schadenfreude in watching as the British establishment are forced to deal with the fact that, through their own greed and disregard for their fellow citizens (subjects?), they have succeeded in reducing much of the UK to shithole status.

Anyone who has been to football games in the north of England or parts of Scotland anytime aince the late 90s is aware of this. Places like Blackburn, Luton, Motherwell or parts of cities such as Liverpool are worse than any rundown Eastern Polish frontier town. Plus many are riven with ethnic tensions that may eventually cause it to go the Belfast route. This is the legacy of Thatcher (and indeed Blair to a lesser extent) ie a society run for the benefit of self interested rent seekers to the exclusion of the majority or at least a very large minority.

Indeed, in acknowledging or observing such developments it’s worth stressing that all this has occurred while the UK has been a part of the EU i.e. the slow decline has not, nor will not be caused by Brexit i.e. Brexit is a result not a cause…

The fear would be of course that Ireland could be in the process of replicating a similar trajectory. One would hope we could avoid such self harm but it’s not fully apparent that we will.


#76

If there will be spending cuts and less police due to Brexit, thus improving conditions for a riot, can the riot have “nothing to do with Brexit” ?
If there are none of the promised post-Brexit improvements to standards of living and services in provincial cities and there’s riots, do the riots have “nothing to do with Brexit” ?
If the indigenous population see that actually nothing material has changed post-Brexit to their supplanting by migrants (because the UK economy will get its migrants from somewhere) and there’s riots, do those riots have “nothing to do with Brexit”?

It’s like saying the 2011 riots were solely criminals doing extreme shopping and had therefore had “nothing to do with mass consumerism and broken Britain”


#77

I met a retired senior met officer during the summer at a social event…

He was saying the successive and cumulative cuts to police resources and a general move towards human rights policing had left the met in terrible shape with very poor morale.

The majority of resources are focused on central London which is incredibly safe. However the periphery has only a light police presence and the law and order vacuum has left space for gangs to proliferate.

On the Human Rights policing he defended the old sus laws that allowed stop and search because generally it was used proportionally by local officers who knew the local scene. Not sure if I agree with that assessment myself.

He continued, that it had got to the stage when an officer now has to justify an arrest on the spot as opposed to arrest by appointment. He gave an example of someone is found in possession of drugs, rather than take him to the station the drug dealer would be given a time and date to report to the station to be arrested. Not everyone shows up to be arrested.

To cap it all he said veteran officers are so disenchanted they’re retiring and a lot of experience was being lost.

I guess that reads like an article from The Sun but it’s pretty much his view.

I’m always stuck by Catbear’s reports of life in the UK outside of London and programmes like the Mighty Redcar.

For being our nearest neighbour I wonder how well we really know it.


#78

Knife wars in the London suburbs has been talked about by this guy a bit this year. Candid stuff for Sky. Sure he has been invited back on to be fair to them.

youtube.com/watch?v=zENoTey8e_k


#79

IMHO, we’re not too far off. Recall the destruction/looting of the Lidl in Fortunestown back in March. There’s problems brewing. You don’t see the full extent because they’re being papered over for now.


#80

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