Irexit / Eirexit, call it want you want. They want out!

ireland
eu

#163

@propertyspire
IMO, there’s no debating another persons subjective experience.

@The_Curious_One
I apologies for my previous reply to your comment, that wasn’t a civil or constructive contribution to the thread.


#164

@ Freefallin, yes I’d go along with that.

Plus, how do we get rid of the Commission, President Junker, or President Tusk periodically


#165

@FreeFallin
Also if the EU isn’t controlled by the Franco German axis, why did TMPM have to go begging for her extension specifically in Paris and Berlin today ? Rather than say Rome and Madrid or Stockholm and Helsinki


#166

Well, two things. France and Germany are large trading partners, Germany is offerring a softer line on an extension, France a harder. So she’s gone to the extremes and the leading actors (where some countries aren’t bothered anymore and will just follow along if the big two agree).
Second, it’s another mistake. The Dutch are jumping up and down about Brexit and like ourselves have a lot to lose, and have been natural allies with the UK (and will end up being our nearest ally, I believe, once the UK leaves, er, if they leave). Making it all about France and Germany is another mistake. Barnier has been to Dublin, but May has not…


#167

Ok, anyone who says that Turkey is joining the EU or is near to joining the EU is bald face lying. Negotiations were started in 2005 but didn’t go anywhere.

The ECB didn’t force the non burning of bond holders. That was an Irish Government decision. Influenced by the ECB, maybe. Coerced by the ECB? Possibly. But the ultimate responsibility lies with the Irish Government. Somehow they managed to blame the EU for their own cowardice and incompetence.

As for an Army. There is no EU army. It is strictly forbidden by the existing treaties.

The commission etc are all periodically up for approval by the EU Parliament. The EU parliament can at any time force their removal. The president of the commission, currently Junker, is elected by the EU Parliament for the term of the commission.

This is an easy one. May’s an idiot. End of story. She’s actually of those idiots that believes the Brexiter crap that the EU is Germany’s play thing. It is not.


#168

None of what is being listed here affects anyone here personally. What does affect me personally?

  • Public transport. Trains are almost unbearable at the minute.
  • Housing costs.
  • Creche fees.
  • General level of homelessness, drug use in the centre of Dublin.
  • General costs of x/y & z

These and other things. None of which have anything to do with the EU.

What specifically does the EU do that adversely affects people directly?


#169

@The_Curious_One

You don’t seem to be able to tie mass immigration into contributing to busier public transport, shortage and increased cost of housing, homelessness (bizarre one than when we know 20% of the 10,000 ‘homeless’ are non-nationals or that one one count of rough sleepers in Dublin last year, 80% were non-nationals. Or that close to 50% of the housing list in Fingal was made up of non-nationals before they stopped releasing those stats).

They were at a stage where they were discussing introducing EU travel rights for Turkish citizens!

You seem confused on that one. It goes from ‘didn’t force’ to influenced’ to ‘coerced’.
I’d say the threat of a ‘financial bomb going off in Dublin’ is a bit more than ‘didn’t force’.

There is no army. Your 100% right on that. And I didn’t say there was one.
But if you cannot see we’re headed in that direction or that Treaties aren’t worth the toilet paper they’re written on when it suits the big EU players, then God bless your innocence.


#170

It’s caused mainly by monumental incompetence and NIMBYism.

The trains are getting busier. Maybe we should order a bunch of new trains so we have them when they get really busy? No. We’ll worry about that in a few years. Oh, it takes a few years to build and deliver new trains, who could possibly have know that? That’s the EU’s fault.

Busses are busy. Maybe we should restructure the bus routes to make them more efficient? NO! The 4X bus route might be different, I won’t tolerate this!!

Luas is full. Let’s build a metro to receive the pressure? NO! It might disrupt one or two streets in south Dublin, we can’t have that.

Population in the Leinster area is growing. Maybe we should, umm, I don’t know, maybe plan for the changing demographics. Plan for new transport routes, electricity, water supply, general infrastructure etc. NO! It’s much easier to just blame the EU.

Negotiations with Turkey has been going on for fifty years and going no where.

  • If a diplomat says yes, he means maybe.
  • If he says maybe he means no;
  • If a diplomat says no, he is no diplomat.

The rules of the game is that one never says no to negotiations. Turkey has never been anything less than decades away from joining the EU. Besides, the Irish government can veto it.

I’m not at all confused. What type of pathetic loser uses the excuse for doing something, I didn’t want to do it but I was bullied into it. I’m pretty sure the conversations were toned, do something you stupid f * * k! It doesn’t change the fact that the only ones with the legal authority to do anything was the Irish government.


#171

CBOJ entered ZIRP late last century and has still to show any signs of normalising despite being the only major economy in this position during long periods of global economic expansion.
ECB went there 3 years ago and is again today likely to maintain the 0% refi rate. As PMI figures indicate possible imminent recession in the EU interest rate normalisation by the ECB doesn’t seem to be on the horizon.
The Fed has made some effort to normalise interest rates but the US yield curve implies that it will soon be reversing course and rates have not yet reverted to anything like the long term mean.
It isn’t clear what will be the way out of the cycle of low interest rates and stalling growth and whether the ECB’s eventual solution will be in the interest of peripheral EU states if it does succeed.
The traditional solution to these problems is not possible in the absence of monetary sovereignty.
The belief that it would be preferable to regain and/or retain monetary and fiscal sovereignty in the current financial situation isn’t necessarily indicative of retardation, traitorous Russophilia or anti-Semitism.


#172

Interest rate policies that suited Germany in 2000 but didn’t suit us were a major contributor to the celtic tiger and subsequent recession, we still suffer that fallout today and I think this could happen again - you wanted an example.


#173

Maybe you are right. Maybe not. I don’t know. At one point a famous economist of the twentieth century said that central banks should simply set a value and forget about it. Invariably the central banks will get it wrong. That nobody knows nothing in this game. I’d tend to agree.

I find it surreal, that some of the main players in the financial collapse in Ireland were recorded on tape saying that they were lying to officials. That officials have demonstrably shown to be at best dithering idiots, at worst actively conspiring and culpable in the destruction that happened. Somehow the narrative has become those good honest, ‘sound’, individuals were mislead by the evil ECB.

Probably some of the crash was exacerbated by incorrect bank policy. I’m more than a little sceptical that the individuals in the central bank at that time that were shown to be dithering idiots would have done much of a better job.


#174

If central banks didn’t need to manipulate interest rates to control the economy then the rates would naturally be set by the free market based on how many people wanted to save versus how many wanted to borrow at any given time.
This has the added benefit of making problems like the Celtic Tiger bust much less likely as the cost of borrowing would have risen in tandem with its extent.


#175

Another perspective from the left…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_Europe_Movement_2025

@The_Curious_One
The issues you raised in your list of items that affect you personally are the effects. (These will be different for everyone.) We need to look at the causes.

We talked about the issues of standardization and organization @ the start of this thread. The postal system was mentioned wrt international oganization. The issue of EU militarization was brought up a couple of pages back in the thread. This is 1 issue that has been raised by MEP Luke “Ming” Flanagan.


#176

This is so ridiculous it isn’t even a straw-man argument. The EU has no military infrastructure. Not only that, it is explicitly stated in the Seville Declarations that Ireland is not party to such a non existing entity.

In line with its traditional policy of military neutrality, Ireland is not bound by any mutual defence commitment. Nor is Ireland party to any plans to develop a European Army. Indeed, the Nice European Council recognised that the development of the Union’s capacity to conduct humanitarian and crisis management tasks does not involve the establishment of a European Army.

How much more clear can it be made? This is locked in Irish law, EU law and international law.


#177

@The_Curious_One
Did you read the post (there was a video attached)?

It started out as just coal and & steel.


#178

This is a bald faced lie. One that is so trivial to demonstrate as such it is ridiculous.

The first line on the first page of the treaty of Rome make it clear this is not the case.

Determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe,

Resolved to ensure the economic and social progress of their countries by common action to eliminate the barriers which divide Europe,


#179

What year was the treaty of Rome signed?


#180

Wikipedia says - 25 March 1957


#181

#182

The treaty of Rome was signed in 1957. This treaty is still in force and is the foundation treaty of the EU.

This is the treaty that Ireland signed up to in the early seventies. Whether you agree with ever closer union or not is a separate discussion. That there was a concerted effort to create an ever closer union was put front and center and in plain language in the treaties that were published and signed up to.

Ireland signed up to ever closer union.