Irish Banks pushing for Cashless Banking?


#223

The nordics are pretty good for being cashless. I’ve travelled a bit there for work and I’m always able to avoid FX for those trips. I wouldn’t like to be eating the fees on a personal credit card, but it would more often than not work out cheaper than having 10-15 euro in spare FX for the jar of random currency at home.


#224

Cash transactions higher than I think €12k have to be reported to the authorities without disclosing this fact to the payee.


#225

Above €2000 they have to question you as to the source of funds, probably lower now. An Post request ID when exchanging more than €1000 in any currency, probably gets filed away somewhere.


#226

That always seemed like the silliest questioning ever when the bank asks me for the source of funds. I mean, what’s the point of asking but doing absolutely no verification?

Me: “Sold an apartment”
Bank “OK then”

Me: “Won the lottery”
Bank: “OK then”

Me: “Found it on the street”
Bank: “OK then”

Me: “Drug deal”
Bank “OK then”


#227

Cover their asses, the bank manager etc could lose their job etc if their bank is used for shady things. Mind you seeing how no one lost their job over the banking debacle of late 00s …


#228

Equally pointless:

Me: “I’d like to withdraw 12k please”
Bank: “We have to ask what’s it for, I’m afraid. I just need something to write down”
Me: “I just got engaged”
Me: [Aside] nosy pricks

Next time:
Me: “I’d like to withdraw 9,500 please”
Bank: “Sign here”
[Walks outside and withdraws another 500]
No follow-up AML check from bank


#229

Multiple small transactions just under the limit is probably more suspicious since it might point at structuring

The best one so far is Revenue asking regarding large cash transactions few years back, my reply was “In light of mismanagement of the country I did not trust the bank to exist the next day”. Surprisingly there was no follow up questions or audit :smiley:

edit:typos


#230

I guess it’s just to pass on to the authorities.

The bank/car dealership/jeweller/whoever aren’t the police and wouldn’t be investigating anything. But the info might give the police a lead.

Is it only banks that are required to ask for source of funds?


#231

My point is that I can say anything I want to the bank and they don’t or can’t check. Since I have no statutory duty to tell the bank the truth, if the Revenue come asking I can say “yeah I made that up, I actually won it on the horses” and I haven’t done anything wrong.


#232

I think the system is a bit more sophisticated than that in fairness. The bank don’t check of course - they’re not the police.

I’ve been interviewed by Revenue officials who were investigating cash payments - just called in to my office to get all the details they could on a transaction.

You can then match declared income to spending. If you’re clearly spending more than you’ve declared - problem.

The bookies is probably a common line alright. If you won €10k on horses, ok, maybe it’s made up of lost of €500 wins, but there should be some trail to back it up. Maybe some other betting activity, or a bookie who can vouch for you - I don’t really know how that would work to be honest. But I’m sure it’s doable.

But the bottom line is the bank aren’t the authorities, so wouldn’t be doing any investigation anyway. If you lodge €10k (or whatever the threshold is) to an account, they take the cash and report you to the Gardaí. Up to them then to investigate, with Revenue if required.

So far as I know.


#233

Yes but my point is that it’s a useless piece of info unless they also gather documents to back it up (that they can pass to the authorities).


#234

Well at the end of the day thats a good thing, in this state the job of financial matters investigations falls onto Gardai and Revenue. I highly doubt the banks want to run their own police force in an age when they are trying to cut everything.

The banks, car dealers etc fill out the required forms and forward them on to people who might care and have the power to investigate.
Tho’ a bank could refuse to deal with you and close your account if they deem you as too high risk.

These issues are taken alot more seriously over in US


#235

Oh I have no issue with the transactions being reported. Just with the “source of funds” question coming from the bank. That should be Revenue.


#236

The Raisin savings marketplace is live now.

raisin.com


#237

Hmmm. I read something recently about Polish banks getting hammered by CHF loan conversions. Not sure I want 2% interest that badly.


#238

Is interest subject to DIRT or would you need to self declare and pay PAYE, PRSI and USC as with a foreign bank a/c?


#239

Firstly, you need to prove to foreign bank that you are a non resident. Secondly, you need to self declare and pay DIRT (not PAYE/PRSI/USC) as the deposit interest has been earned in the EU.


#240

Considering you be lucky to get 1-2% interest and then pay 40%+ in DIRT anyone with large amounts of cash be better of investing in Irish property 8DD

Seems the government is getting exactly what they want, money flowing into housing, leading to price rises and making NAMA viable by making any other form of investment unattractive :frowning:


#241

Raisin is not for me. You get about 100bp premium over what’s on offer in Irish banks, more like 60 after DIRT. For that you have to file your own DIRT return and you run the non-trivial risk of a haircut.

There’s a reason the interest rates are higher. It’s because the banks are on the Czech Republic and Poland, ie outside the euro area. They don’t have access to Eurosystem liquidity if they get in trouble. Also, if their own economies get in trouble devaluation is an option. This instantly means a Polish bank’s liabilities have got more expensive overnight while its assets have stayed the same. This in turn can lead to bank failure.

The risk of this is low (but non-negligible) vis-a-vis state savings* which have a much lower likelihood of haircut and are DIRT-free. Cyprus 2013 showed that when it comes to winding up banks, sovereigns have very little interest in looking after depositors who are both wealthy and foreign.

*The Greek government did not default on small-time bondholders who were 98% its own citizens.


#242

UK Branch Closures Accelerate

thisismoney.co.uk/money/news … paign=1490