I think the main concern is how far negative they can push it before people scramble to pull their deposits out.
The main question, for now, is whether NIRP will ever effect retail deposit rates. Apart from a handful of global exceptions, it has not happened yet.
Britain’s biggest banks closing more than 12 branches A WEEK leaving customers strande
Not just banks but retailers want less cash
Musgrave’s wants Government to push public to use cards over cash
Why has it suddenly become suddenly more expensive to handle cash?
A local shop refuses to accept Debit cards for transactions less than €10. is that legal?
It appears it is legal, but after the Dept of Finance halving the interchange fees to 0.1% for Debit Card transactions (0.3% for credit cards) a couple of weeks back, retailers costs have come down so the Minister is calling for them to stop the practice.
Banks have increased fees for handling cash? Musgrave’s submission was in June
Bank of Ireland has issued letters to retailers notifying them of an increase in cash handling charges to 60c per €100, up from 48c per €100. Coin handling charges will increase to €3 per €100, up from €2 per €100. checkout.ie/bank-of-ireland- … rges/11933
The reduction in interchange fees reduces fees for the bank. Fees only go down for the retailer of they go looking for a reduction or switch bank or have an honest bank who reduces fees. There are plenty of POS electronic offerings out there including international offerings. Hopefully, most retailers are clued in enough to look for a big reduction in fees.
Agreed that not accepting electronic payments for small transactions should be outlawed to encourage a cashless society.
Obviously the convenience stores use it as a way to get more sales out of each transaction. They know full well that if you called in for the newspaper you’ll likely pick up a packet of biscuits or some of that confectionery crap rather than go looking for another shop. I bet the shops would change their tune if they had to set out their policy on their signage.
Eh no, credit/debit card fees really do add up, and then if there is a chargeback there are more fees and as merchant you always get screwed.
I realize that in your [snip] view of the world all private enterprise is inherently evil but there are good reasons why retailers do not like cards.
Until there is a card system with zero fees (for consumers AND merchants), irreversible transactions, instant settlement one can quite easily understand why cash in hand is more valuable to a seller than an IOU with fees from Visa/Mastercard
Personally, I’m doing less and less through the bank. Leave in enough of the wages to cover the bills and the remainder comes out as cash.
I’ve also heard a good few complaints from retailers giving out about chargebacks. Apparently it can be a drawn out process to get paid, and it is open to being abused by slightly disgruntled customers.
Ah Bailed Out Bank of Ireland are leading the charge in the Orwellian plan to de-cashify society. They began to make it even harder and harder for their commercial customers about two years ago to lodge money and cheques with a teller, now they’re making it even more expensive… *but but but the consumer, laughing stock of europe, pencils for voting, progress… *
Personally if a Bank can not provide cash handling services within reason then it should not have a license.
However, this being Guinea pig Island (aka Ireland) where everything is run to suit itself I do not anticipate this to change and expect the literal and metaphorical cash burning piles to rise.
Few are aware of chargebacks but when they hit they hit hard. People forget the difference of a debit and credit card. I think you should only use credit cards but since not everyone could enjoy the convenience on credit check the debit card seem like the deal, with the rise of online paying they’ve created both the demand and supply…I sent my debit card back in for the sake of saving the 40 tax and I don’t actually need it when I have a credit card.
Using a credit card is more secure, they lend the money to you and the supplier gets paid all in one go, i.e. it’s not your money on the hook initially whereas with a debit card it’s intravenous extraction.
If I remember this correctly. Debits have a fixed charge say 20/25c and credits are usually a single digit percentage of the transaction. I remember years ago you’d be charged and extra 10% to use a credit card in a store. Think the 80’s.
Cards represent middle men handlers of money transfer so it’s going to incur cots and both sides for the card holder and the shop.
Some margins are low in retail, close to single digit so a charge on a small purchase can halve your margin or more. Once cards where used by only the very wealthy for big ticket purchases, now they are the preserve of the masses.
Some retailers offer customers the option of using their card for the smallest of transactions as long as they agree to a small card charge on top, most people usually agree to this. That’s a better solution as it’s upfront but with the variance of fees across cards the min. amt sale in reality serves to handle the variance and is easier ti implement in reality when you are processing hundreds and thousands of sales.
In the UK it’s
55p per 100 at Barclays
66p per 100 at RBS
60p per 100 at HSBC
Note, all of those are the lowest tarrifs, the charge increases depending on whether your an E-Banking customer.
So BOI is now in line with the largest UK Banks.
There’s another far more nefarious reason small retailers won’t accept cards. They’re in trouble with their banks and don’t want the cash going through their accounts where it can be monitored, liened.
Other than stepping into line what’s your point?
While that may be true in a few cases. I sincerely do not believe it is broadly the reason why retailers have varying card policies.
If I remember correctly there where times I could only use cash in Lidl because i didn’t have the right card, that may still be the case that they only process debit cards. That was Lidl’s policy.
Another example of the highly varied playing field is merchant terminal integrations with POS systems. This is changing now but it also costs. The like of the large multiples Dunnes, Tesco etc etc merchant processing was fully integrated with the POS to the point now you can scan out and pay your own stuff at the self serve. They will always have the economy f scale advantage of the smaller retailer.
The majority of smaller retailers who have a register or a POS probably still do not have integrated merchant processing and you can see even in the example of LIDL they were selective probably on cost grounds of how much integration they started with and I assume still apply.
Life as a small retailer is not worth it is the long and short of it in Ireland, you will have to adapt in a way that often doesn’t pay back.
'Course these costs pale into comparison to the Government High Cost protection money policies that seem to be impervious simply because there is no actual resistance from within the population that would serve as controlling mechanism for the outright shambles that is official tea and biceps Ireland.
What’s my point?
My point is it costs the bank money to handle coin and notes. I see nothing wrong with charging for the service. This is common practice in all European countires so we’re neither a “gunie pig” nor the “laughing stock of Europe”.
For a store with 100k in revenues and 50/50 cash/card split, this increase would cost them €60 a year.
Banks have always charged for the service as they do many others, but that is not the thrust of the thread or my beef. Thus I needed to clarify your point which is very interesting now you have qualified it as think it rightly contradicts the Musgrave assertion. So none of the angles make sense.
My guinea pig comment is A) a long running observation of Ireland and B) using the bailed out banks is but one avenue for a cashless society among many and various avenues that read like a map of a thousand cuts, heralding the arrival of cashless system where the consent is so very easily manufactured out in the closed open of the media as as is also clearly happening with the refugee/migrant mass mind assault.
What’s planned is planned. What’s not is not.
To conclude the best thing anyone could do for the sake of their childrens childrens children is to stop purchasing the mind grooming publication such as the Irishtimes and not pay for the unprivledge of being de-minded.