Irish houses are cheap

Ronan Lyons has done the numbers.
ronanlyons.com/2011/03/16/is-irelands-property-market-competitive/

Those globalpropropertyguide prices are nonsense. 120SqM apartments for 420K in Berlin and €1600 in rent? No way.

immowelt.de/immobilien/immol … &wflma=125

He has taken property prices in isolation. A 120sq/m apartment in Milan may cost €800K, but what type of people are buying them? I bet not the same economic demographic that would be in the market for a 300K apartment in Dublin…

My first question for Ronan - and I am one of his staunchest perennial fan-boys on this site - is where I could find a 120sqm apartment in Dublin?

I found only two on Daft and MyHome sales (sq.m is not included in most rental listings so I could only search by sales): a €1.15m 3-bed penthouse at 130sqm in Docklands and a €1.5m 154sqm 3-bed on Baggot Street:

myhome.ie/residential/brochu … lin/111151
daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=435729

My second question would be who the hell Global Property Guide are, upon which Ronan’s entire article depends?

On top of which, if you go to Ronan’s link to Global Property Guide and search through the “Sq.m Price and Rents” box on the right and clck various countries/cities the figures absolutely do not agree with the graph in Ronan’s piece. A quick look revealed Dublin is more expensive then Munich, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Oslo, Barcelona, Madrid…

The average 2 bed apartment in Athens is €600k? I’m sorry, but that data doesn’t pass the sniff test. A quick look online found a 3bed city centre apartment - 140sqm - on offer for €380k and I don’t doubt that there are many more like it.

The 2nd graph is for a “120 sq.m. property” which means he could be comparing the purchase price of a penthouse apartment in Chelsea with a semi-D in Blanch??

Time to sack Ronan :open_mouth: :laughing:

Surely the title of this thread should read “Irish RENTS are cheap” (which we all know they are not).

I hope he didn’t mean lil ole ME with that “hawks” comment. :nin , Ronan and I never discussed anything except numbers and then only in the most courteous way possible.

I look forward to discussing the matter with Ronan when he shows up here…any day now …I have a subtly different indexation theory of ‘cheapnesss’ in mind …both for rentals and purchases :smiley:

It’s not that Irish prices are cheap, it is that other prices are unsustainably expensive… timber… time to export the 'pin, plenty of opportunities abroad.

Once again, though, our poor general (as in what is generally used) housing stock is shown up.

@Barney Gumble
Ah, so Irish expensive apartments and houses are cheaper than other cities expensive apartments and houses?

Nearly €2k for rent in Frankfurt seems wildly expensive. Our company rents out apartments close to the financial district for €1.6k. Bear in mind, that’s an all-in cost (covers lighting, heating, taxes, even cleaning). From what I can see, rent for ordinary Johnny on the street is about the same as Dublin.

Could our many foreign correspondents on the PIN quote inclusive/exclusive …eg inclusive of heat light service charges local taxes vat etc etc

In Dublin €1500 would be inclusive of taxes ( none) service charges (landlord) maintenance (landlord) but not electricity cable phone line gas or heat where the tenant would pay. Ireland has the most expensive phone lines in the world and some of the most expensive broadband either by phone or cable.

We also have the most expensive electricity and gas in the EU or thereabouts and no district heating. However only standing charges can be added to rents and there is no standing charge in cities…only in the country. Some landlords include standing charges in their rents abroad.

By the time Ronan shows up we would have a valid and checked comparison method :smiley:

He talks about facts in the paragraph above. Then from his first comment:

I’ll just ignore that entry then.

Lichterfelde is a high-rise zone on the outskirts. An apartment that size in central Berlin could easily reach 1600.

Anecdotally my assessment of their figures is that their figures are incorrect. Since their figures are solely based on anecdotal evidence as well I think this car can be parked under a number of headings - BS, Shilling, Agree to Disagree, Tomato Potato.

Those numbers just don’t reflect what I’ve seen myself.
Berlin is much cheaper than Dublin, yet the graph shows the opposite.

Somethings not right.

(Incidentally, I found Ronans ‘hawks’ comments nothing more than a bit of playful banter.).

You can analyse every area and apartment type but I’m certain that rents in Berlin are not 20% dearer in Dublin. Likewise for sales.

Here is my dime store psychological analysis of the statement above.
Ronan wants to head off any criticism of this analysis from the property pin (and others). He does so by creating a strawman argument. That is, people on the property pin will attack his analysis because they are predisposed to thinking that he has a vested interest in rising property prices not because his analysis is faulty or full of holes. Now he can swot away critical analysis by saying, I knew those property pin guys would attack this piece. I told you so in the peice itself.

I may even go so far as to say that the statement above has in fact shown that you do have a vested interest in property prices remaining static or rising, possibly rooted deep in your subconscious :smiley:

Yeah, I found Ronan’s throat-clearing at the beginning rather petty and, as you say, designed to ward off any criticism (“haters gonna hate”).

Here’s my query: the comparison is based on square footage. And the site claims to use web-based adverts to assess prices. Yet I’m pretty sure I’ve never seen footage mentioned in Irish rental ads. I tweeted this to Ronan and he has yet to reply.

P.