Is Ireland, in its current state, ruined?


#21

Wow, that’s very defeatist. Most Irish people that I know of all ages, and who live in various parts of Ireland, have no intention of leaving, apart from some fairly recent graduates who are angling to get back. I had friends emigrate in the 90’s and to be honest they have had mixed experiences overseas, faraway hills are green etc…

We have had pension deficits for as long as I can remember as state pensions are essentially Ponzi schemes but they never seem to crystallize into real economic issues (having said that I am more than aware that many state schemes are far too generous).

Also it looks like the rise in corporate taxes might be a thing that has come unheralded and will have a lasting role in reducing the issue of the huge national debt as a pressing concern.

I expect housing issues to be solved either by the market (eventually) or by the next worldwide recession having an effect here. But it would help if one of our governments actually showed some vision and insisted/incentivised the many companies still coming into Dublin to move down to Limerick, Cork or elsewhere. Even better if an Irish government had the vision to start on a new connurbation somewhere like Sligo to boost the North West and spread the load on the country’s infrastructure.


#22

A Cork-Limerick motorway could have masssive economic benefits.

US firms flying into Shannon would have huge scope to set up along the west coast, anywhere from Cork, Limerick, Clare, Galway.

It would also help tourism in the West. I can do Cork-Tuam in 3hrs now, sticking with the speed limit. Take half an hour off and it really opens up weekends in Sligo, Donegal, Mayo, Leitrim


#23

Going even further can you imagine what a motorway from Cork to Derry running close to Limerick/Shannon, Ennis, Galway, Knock airport, Enniskillen, Omagh, Letterkenny along the way would do in terms of opening up the entire west of the island? With global warming taking hold it is not inconceivable that the West of Ireland with its great beaches might become a popular tourist destination in the future as southern Europe becomes too hot, and could need a motorway running past its airports to service it.


#24

I think the next big thing is a personal health crisis, obesity and its related illnesses are going to be a huge strain on service but I’m not as negative as you about our services. From personal experience in the HSE and NHS we’re actually doing well and getting better, while the NHS is literally falling apart there is not the political will to save it.


#25

The introduction of Nama by Bacon was ruineous, propping up failed properties, with even more taxpayers monies for the never never to be sorted property market. Not allowing foreclosures of which there should have been close on 50 percent. All the negative equity non performing loans, giving people free properties for free for 7 or 8 years or forever before the banks chuck people out. Propping up the rentals with hap and rent subsidies. We are in a fools paradise with the taxpayers, the little people.
Why are properties not advertised as being in foreclosure! For say 60days or two years. Why are the legal system not taking action for the banks foreclosures why are debtors not accountable for their debts.


#26

In my case, I have spent many years living and working abroad, mostly in Northern European countries but also one Mediterranean country (this was the least good of the countries in which I’ve lived, after Ireland). Each country offered a higher quality of life and standard of living than Ireland, in most cases, much higher. I refer to affordable, good quality accommodation being available within easy reach of work (walking or cycling) quick access to medical care, inexpensive childcare, fantastic public transport, amazing cycle paths, etc. I can’t think of one thing that I think Ireland does better. I’m actually embarrassed when friends/colleagues from those countries come to visit.


#27

Well, one thing Ireland does have is more job opportunities that some of these countries and that is why there are proportionally more Europeans working here than Irish in Europe. Look at the shocking rates of youth unemployment in Spain or Italy for instance. Having said that of course our infrastructure/planning could be massively improved and it makes me sick to think of what we could have done with the money that was required to prop up the banks.

But transport to work and accommodation is really only a major issue in the greater Dublin area so this is why our governments should have been pushing hard for years to move all new investments out of this geographical area. You also have to remember that we are a nation with a low population density and this makes public transport more difficult to fund so it would be difficult to have our public transport look anything like they have in Belgium for instance where everything is more compacted (and they had the benefit of tunnels dug using money derived brutally from their overseas empire).


#28

why do you live here if it embarrasses you so much?


#29

Sure wasn’t it great altogether in 1979, living in a country that banned Monty Python.

irishtimes.com/culture/film/an-awful-dump-the-ireland-that-banned-monty-python-s-life-of-brian-40-years-ago-1.3807270


#30

Experts say…

Cost of housing is pushing people towards ‘pauperisation’
irishtimes.com/news/environ … -1.3809688

@The Curious One
That’s more of a cultural idiosyncratic aspect our history. It’s a non sequitur when talking about the current economic state of affairs.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_censorship_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland
You might be a pauper (and your children will probably be debt servicing paupers), but at least now you can watch your blu-ray box set of those Monty Python classics to you hearts content.


#31

The cost of the bank bailout amounts to about a sixth of our national debt, or a fifth of the increase in debt since 2006. You should probably be feeling sick about what we did do with that money – propped up current expenditure instead of cutting our cloth to meet our means.


#32

Or spending it on capital projects at a time when we had a surplus of builders…


#33

Now Now Yogan, you know that €400m Childrens Hospitals are an opportunity cost only clearly visible in hindsight mode. :smiley:

As for the utter shitebags of roads (and cars) we had in the 1980s, the last 10 years has been far more benign. After the PMPA collapse around 1983 you would have paid £800 to insure a rustbucket worth half that, in your own right, just to get on the road, that off a gross salary of perhaps £6000 back then and a good lot less after tax.

No wonder that people were still ‘named drivers’ until well into the 1990s.


#34

ATypical day, Ireland 1990… the cars…the people…

Good times.


#35

I dont see much difference between the current culture of politcally correct de-platforming and the censorship of Monty Python.

That the likes of Donald Clarke cant see the wood from the trees tells you that the new establishment are little different to the old. They simply have different trigger-topics…something that John Cleese appears to be well aware of…

Indeed, the current establishment are as aware of the debilitating effect of comedic ridicule on the(ir) prevailing ideology as the old were when they banned Monthy Python. The new ‘War on Comedy’ is very much ongoing and differs only in its targets…

quillette.com/2019/01/03/the-new-war-on-comedy/

Imagine living in a society that banned humour etc…


#36

Much of the generation who worked through the 80s think things are great altogether. Many have second or third homes. Rental incomes blah di blah. Most are mortgage free and enjoy, or will enjoy, decent pensions.

A significant segment of those that came later (unless mammy or daddy are propertied) are fucked in terms of seeking to move through what are generally perceived to be the ‘normal’ stages of human development ie birth, education, job, marriage, kids, retirement, death…a large percentage are getting as far as job and thereafter living like students indefinitely in a permanent state of infanitlisation…resulting in a decrease in the birth rate…the proposed response to which is the importation of youth from abroad…which as we’ve witnessed elsewhere will result in less social cohesion…but more cash for the connected landlord class…round and round we go…and some wonder where the roots of Brexit or the Yellow Vest Movement lie.


#37

Ill have you know that these are these are the starving masses that had just survived the 80s.

The pain of the era is etched on each and every face.


#38

LOL, yes. The last time Ireland had a replacement fertility rate was around 1990. On the basis of Ireland being a Nation of people ie an ‘Irish Nation’ that can reproduce itself, it’s prospects are pretty grim. Today we have very high ages of first births to mothers, first home purchase and marriage. We have no births to cover native emigration any more and are engaged with high levels of inward migration (2018 had about 35k net migration in with 98% of that being non-irish). Ponzi immigration economics is actually Fine Gaels future demographic plan #ireland2040.

The country is basically run for international corporate interests and boomers who want to keep their pensions intact. Driving home for work in the evenings and seeing the army of coolie deliveroo drivers come out to delivery meals to atomised millennial workers living in boxes consuming their Netflix is what a large chunk of Ireland is now.

On the other side if you own a REIT or even a slumpile in Ranelagh or have a cushy government job and bought your home before 2004 you are probably laughing. Picking an Au-pair and deciding what hybrid you want and wheres good for skiing this year are your main concerns.

The only hope is a crushing worldwide recession, the EU being reset to a trade federation by the growing number of illiberal EU countries and our reliance on the corporate tax rate scam to end(which is basically heroin to this govt). Since Fine Gael never balanced a budget and have eyewatering levels of debt, they will be utterly wiped out once the current world-wide asset bubble pops.


#39

Ain’t that the truth. Census 2021 will be an interesting read for all, and the spin will start well in advance.


#40

lots to look forward there :laughing: