It's The Empties Stoopid Part the XXXXI. Germany Calling.

independent.ie/business/iris … 33714.html

It would take half the time if we knocked partition walls between semi detached houses and
knock two thirds of the time off for the setup with two apartments and a basement type apartment that all together look like a townhouse.

It would take alot less if the market was free.
It would take alot less if our whole economy wasnt rigged.

NAMA wouldnt allow any of the above, seems like alot of people would rather demolish. No doubt these very same people have huge vested interests in demolitions & bailouts.

But goys, loike, SoCoDu is different, roit?

I can see an Irish remake of The Ring movie on the basis of this. A Pinster somewhere in the world reads this article . The phone rings. Then said Pinster has to endure 43 years of government interference, Occupy protests, Isobel and McFeely High Court appeals before being found with a grotesque contorted face in their home.

I wonder how many houses in Ireland were built during, or before, the forties? Should nearly all of them, unless they’ve been extensively reburbished, are past their “best before” date by now and should be due for “retirement” /demolishing?

Subtract that number from the number of excess houses and that should reduce things a good bit.

I personally wouldn’t like to live in any house built prior to the 80s at the earliest. Houses don’t last forever. After about 65 years (or half that in the case of Celtic Bubble wooden-framed homes), they’re fit for demolishing.

Give me a pre 80s house anyday. I duuno if modern houses are better built but having owned a house built in the 80s… never again…

With regard to this picture from the report here I’d like to say that I flew from Knock Airport the week before last and made some observations while driving in my hire car with no aerial for the radio left alone with my own thoughts.
independent.ie/multimedia/dy … 62579t.jpg

Knock airport is in the middle of one of those red areas.
I was stunned by the amount of derlict old housing all along the roads.
The truth is nobody wants to live in those low quality houses but they are privately owned or ownership in doubt and nobody wants to actually knock them.
Some of the more decent ones looked like the parochial house from Fr. Ted. Some were a lot less presentable than that. Some had modern houses directly behind them and the derelicts were left there to crumble.
There were also a lot of derelicts in one horse towns along the way to Knock too.
Perhaps the existence of the house means that planning permission for a replacement is easier to come by. Anyhow, the locals/owners of these derelicts don’t seem to be in a hurry to knock the houses.

I was thinking it would only take 10 or 20 thousand to refurbish many of these houses to turn them in to nice rural cottages but the locals all want modern houses and I wouldn’t want a holiday home in those areas as the area appears to have the unfortunate co-qualities of being very wild and inhospitable while still being rural yet looking over developed at the same time.
The weather on the days I was travelling from Knock was terrible and having just coming from a sunny day in Germany I was thinking you could refurbish these but who’d want to live in such a harsh unwelcoming place as this. Barely a tree to be seen, ugly low stone walls that would contain nothing and neglected land.
anyway the question I ask is seeing as the locals in these areas don’t actually care about the derelicts and are in no hurry to demolish them who would benefit from a state funded program to demolish houses.

The colour coding on that map makes it look more benign than it is. The lowest scale is 5% to 10% vacancy.

Rob Kitchin must not have slept last night as he has a fairly long response to this article here

irelandafternama.wordpress.com/2 … h-trouble/

As you need planning permission to demolish a house, why bother…

More likely to be allowed replace one eyesore with another than to build a brand spanking new eyesore as I understand it.

Can somebody tell me, is the word ‘houses’ used to denote *all *properties (including apartments) ?

The map is more accurate than the headline. It does show areas where there is a gross oversupply of houses and I have been banging on about the bulldozer for many years on the Pin.

independent.ie/business/iris … 33714.html

https://www.independent.ie/multimedia/dynamic/01062/Deutsche-Bank_1062579t.jpg

And the map shows we are as likely to start building again around Dublin/Cork/Galway as we are to start up the bulldozer in more rural areas…in fact both shall be requisite measures in my opinion.

We could “work it through” it in 5-7 years if those dopes in the Indo conceded that everybody who buys a Sandyford Apartment off NAMA should be given a Holiday Home in Louisburgh or Dungloe or Carrigallen thrown in as well. Just the one each mind. :slight_smile:

NIRSA, who came very late to the science of analysing empties…unlike the PIN which always led the way… has an interesting commentary piece albeit not interesting enough for me to quote it So read it yourselves if you want, link below.

irelandafternama.wordpress.com/2 … h-trouble/

I’m sure Namawinelake will roll in at some stage, I might even guest write a piece for them if they ask me. :smiley:

I believe so :smiling_imp:

From Census 2011 we know the following;

  • 2,004,175 habitable dwelling in the State (plus what’s been built since). (1)

  • 294,202 habitable dwellings classified as vacant (that is, not lived in/used). (1)

  • 1,654,208 households. (2)

The number of ‘holiday homes’ is included in the overall total, but not for the most part in the vacant properties number (that’s not to say that some units that were formerly used as and now abandoned, or built and intended to be sold as holiday homes aren’t included in that category).

Also, properties that were started and not completed along with those that had fallen into disrepair and failed to meet the CSO criteria for ‘habitable dwelling’ are not included in the figures (a number of which would be what an EA might classify as a “project for a D.I.Y. enthusiast”, or to the man in the street & property TV presenters a “fixer upper”).

2,004,175 - 294,202 = 1,709,973 the number of habitable dwellings being used (main residence & holiday homes), with a national population of 1,654,208 households, suggests 55,765 non vacant units being used as secondary residences/holiday homes or for other purposes.

Based on that the Indo article appears to be somewhat light on its numbers, suggesting “289,451 empty houses in Ireland, including almost 60,000 vacant holiday homes”, when according to the CSO there are 294,202 vacant. Could we have a situation where there is more than one vacant ‘holiday home’ for every one in use?

Blue Horseshoe

(1) cso.ie/en/media/csoie/census … mplete.pdf
(2) cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Statire … Language=0

No habitable house should be demolished. At the right price, someone will see value in them as a holiday / retirement homes, the western coastline is littered with them for gods sake. Even at €10k a pop average sale price, vs the cost of demolition, it makes sense, with some conditions regarding a minimum standard of upkeep by prospective buyers, to auction the lot. It makes way more sense than demolition.

I felt it wasn’t bad - the most apt bit being this

Because I do think folk are playing fast and loose in commenting on this.

Firstly, like BuMble, I’d wonder why there is talk of demolition before we’ve seen any real attempt to sell all this stuff. If properties were up on eBay for 99c with no bids, it might be time. But when stuff still typically seems to be priced in six figures, it strikes me as unreasonable to say “No-one wants this five bed house in Leitrim at €225k, there’s obviously no market, so,” as we wheel in the bulldozers.

Secondly, its never clear who actually owns the vacant stock. NAMA tell us that they only own about 10% of the worst ghost estates (rte.ie/news/2011/0716/nama.html). So who owns the rest of the stuff?

Thirdly, related to the second point, who pays for demolition and does the present owner of the house get compensation?

There’s other questions - but that’s probably enough not to overload the thread. I think we need to recall that, in Detroit, banks paid to demolish houses because otherwise they faced property taxes. So you couldn’t just leave it on eBay for 99c - every year you’d be hit with some kind of rates charge.

Duplicate thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=44957

Meanwhile a week in Kenmare holiday home could set you back €1,200 (listed in their specials) :laughing: . Wonder if u stay for 10 weeks, can you keep it?