Je suis Corbyn (+UK GE 17) For The Many not the few


#863

@coles which is kinda the point I was making with my earlier comment regarding SF. I know, they won’t take the seats and aware of the “logic” behind it. But still.


#864

Agree that there’s a certain pleasure in seeing Con/DUP Brexiteers left to ‘deliver on the promise of Brexit’. You Brexit, you own it [auto-lol]

The inconsistencies of the DUP’s own manifesto will now face full scrutiny.

They want:

  • Strengthened relationships across the four components parts of the United Kingdom with** no internal borders**

  • Particular circumstances of Northern Ireland with a land border with the EU fully reflected

  • **Frictionless border with Irish Republic **assisting those working or travelling in the other jurisdiction

  • To have their cake

  • To also be able to eat said cake which was had in point 4

And a couple of DUP MPs have already elaborated to say that they don’t want any kind of arrangement that keeps N.I. in the single market/customs union because they want to be on the same terms as other parts of the UK. And they can’t abide having a border with the ‘mainland’. Yet there shouldn’t be an actual border with the Republic/EU?


#865

The problem is they don’t have time for that shit. Brussels is chomping at the bit to get going with talks. Leaving time at the end to tie up loose ends plus get everything ratified, there is barely a year to conclude proceedings. Not to mention that a repeat election still wouldn’t necessarily produce a viable government. Anyway, look at Theresa May’s extraordinary accomplishments – it was hard to imagine David Cameron’s political cockup ever being outdone, but she’s managed it within twelve months.

Oh fuck … DUP press conference starting now. Watching Arlene Foster trying to appear statesmanlike is gonna be unbearable for the next while … XX

EDIT: Mercifully only 30 seconds of meaningless drivel. She strode off without taking questions, like the strong statesperson that she is.


#866

Option 1: They are so deluded it’s not funny anymore.

Option 2: They know full well that the EU won’t allow that nonsense but they can’t bring themselves to admit it to their supporters because it will make them look stupid.

I choose Option 2.

What a disaster for this country that we have such a weak and floppy Taoiseach-in-waiting.


#867

I’m not sure how hard Brexit plays into the negotiating strategy.
A hard Brexit is the default, it’s the BATNA. If nobody did anything, never even picked up the phone, then we’d see a hard Brexit in a year and a half or whatever. I suppose if May talks up hard Brexit, it could be to convince her counterparties that she’s not bothered about achieving a result, so needs to be wooed? But I’d expect her to be asking for something instead, which is sort of happening but only in a muddled way (like Boris Johnson saying stuff about shutting borders and keeping fully free trade), because there doesn’t appear to be any developed position.

You’re right she probably won’t be leader for much longer, but she’ll be there until it seems opportune for a challenger to move against her.


#868

@ Coles: Ireland’s complex coalition is looking strong and steady compared to omnishambles across the water.
Are you not enjoying watching the DUP subjected to the scrutiny of the London media? The sudden realisation that Westminster is now hostage to bigoted, sexist, (in some cases) climate denying, zealots is a joy to behold.

@Col Max: Early this morning there was a talking head on BBC saying Brexit talks would ‘simply have to be postponed’ until a government was formed or a new election run after the summer. ‘People have talked about wrapping it up by March 2019 but things change; Brussels will have to wait’ (paraphrase). Another bleary-eyed contributed pointed out that March 2019 is the legal deadline. The relationship automatically ends at that point, deal or no. And that, in fact, any deal would have to be written down by Nov 2018 to get it through the 27 other parliaments that would have to sign off on it.

It’s amazing that such a supposedly outward-looking country, with arguably the most internationalised capital city in the world, manages to be so insular and self-centred. They are clueless about how the EU works and are now frantically searching ‘What is DUP?’ [Phillip Boucher Hayes is in Downing Street and says he has just been asked what D.U.P. stands for - this is the fifth biggest grouping in the House of Commons]


#869

Robert Peston ‏Verified account

Senior Tory MP: “We all f***ing hate her. But there is nothing we can do. She has totally f***ed us”.


#870

I agree
On the other hand, Gus O’Donnell was on Radio 4 this morning too, and rather more tuned in (as one would hope!). Made point that postponing the negotiations was a bit moot since you might as well start and pedal slowly (which he said the EU officials were well versed in doing as needed), and that anyway some heavy lifting would inevitably get left until after the German election.

the blindness on how the EU works is quite widespread though, even among many who should know better. Makes you wonder sometimes if they’re leaving what they think they leaving.*

Edited to add:*
The default position really matters, but seems to be widely misunderstood. Even reading this: theguardian.com/politics/20 … ion-result

No-deal can be a choice, but it doesn’t have to be. It’s also what happens if you don’t do anything else, or if you fail to succeed at organising anything else. If May is subject to enough revolt at home, they can probably stop her signing a deal (what is the exact mechanism to ratify?). But it’s hard to see the revolt leading to a coherent proposal for an alternative deal. The revolt could force her to seek an unrealistic list of concessions, but the need to get assent from the wider EU will limit ability to land that too.

So if you’re struggling to land a deal, you increase the odds of having your hand forced and ending up with a no-deal scenario.


#871

Loads on London based commentators referring to the DUP as “unfamiliar to us on the mainland” :unamused:


#872

It’s crazy, the initial reaction from the English media of a DUP deal was that Brexit might be thrown into doubt because the DUP would seek the UK to remain members of the Common Market as some sort of deal. I would say that sort of misconception would even have been quite common in the Conservative party itself.


#873

Most people on the British mainland haven’t the slightest bit of interest in Northern Ireland.


#874

Did you read Osborne’s editorial in the London Evening Standard?

standard.co.uk/comment/comme … 61271.html

No irony is lost on these people :open_mouth:


#875

They’ll learn! :smiley: :smiley:


#876

In all seriousness, many people in Britain don’t know that Northern Ireland is part of their country.


#877

True.

I just can’t see this coalition working out. Once the British public realise what the DUP stand for (against same sex marriage, against abortion, against ‘climate change’) a lot of them won’t stand for it.


#878

Wish I could find it now but earlier was scrolling on my phone I saw some British journo call the DUP an Irish Unionist Party! :laughing:


#879

Vote Eraser May!
She rubbed out her party, she’ll rub out Brexit too!

8DD


#880

I thought we were the mainland? Aren’t they they godless place?


#881

I understand what you’re saying, but I think the social stuff won’t bother them.
The DUP will have absolutely no say on that sort of stuff whatsoever.
It’s irrelevant.
They’ll do as May says.

I can actually see it work out better than people think.
It’s not the 80’s any more.
The DUP will be after jobs & more subsidies more than anything anti-Irish.
For the likes of May, that’s a tiny price to pay.

Where I think the DUP could pull out is when serious decisions have to be made regarding Brexit.
Like it or not, their constituents need the south.
A hard Brexit is going to hit the north probably more than anywhere else in the UK.
The moment the DUP realise they are getting criticised by their voters, you’ll see a frightened Arlene bow out.

The DUP know NI is slipping away from the rest of the UK.
Being in government should also help delay that process.

Although, as it’s Northern politics, all bets are off.

I think the shinners are doing a disservice to their constituents though.
Nobody gives a damn about the old excuses for not taking their seats.
In the end, it’s their own people that suffer from a lack of engagement.

To clarify, ‘‘I can actually see it work out’’ means surviving about 2 years.


#882

Always thought it was a bit hubristic for anyone living on an archipelago to coopt that term. Surely the mainland starts somewhere around Cherbourg or Roscoff? You can walk about 15,000 kilometres in a straight line from there. 8)