You mean he’d never met a nerd Garda. When it comes to social intelligence and general cop on they seem to be far above average IMO.
ditto (with allowance for the few loons). also one of the areas in Irish society where there has been a massive amount of accountability in recent years.
I was wondering where to place this article and did a search for Peter Kelly. He really is a unique individual. The search shows that he is almost single-handedly is trying to get a grip with the
that has been rampant in ireland. Every gobshite ‘developer’ that has ended up in front of him, has been exposed for the dishonest person that they are. As one commentator on the article says, “we need another 20 like him on the benches”. You would be hard pressed to find another 5 never mind 20.
If there were a propertypin award for public servant of the year, he should have got it annually for the last 5 years.
Whats needed is a sort of ‘national service’ legislation, like Jury service, whereby individuals with the requisite skills can be co-opted from industry into a sort of FBI/SOCA outfit. A triumvirate of an Army Officer, a Judge and one elected (not appointed) person to head it up and define its priorities.
It should be wholly independent of the Dail, police and business interests.
Personally I’d have it staffed by largely ex-Army people; they are hugely undervalued in Irish society.
So the core administrative structure would be based on Army lines, the direction would come from an Army Officer, a legal professional and an elected representative. A 2-1 majority system in place to prioritise and the service only answerable to the President, not the Dail.
Any remaining skillsets could be brought in by the ‘national service’ legislation; this should not preclude foreigners being recruited if deemed necessary.
The aim would be to have a skilled, disciplined and largely uncorruptable civil service department who would be ‘first among equals’ withing the civil service.
Wishful thinking, though.
Would the army officer need ear protection?
Those of you who are taking the piss out of cops (being dumb) are missing the point.
Cops are supposed to be… not too smart. Like soldiers.
If someone is ‘smart’ its likely they’ll start thinking about what it is they are doing.
They are more likely to become disenchanted.
Naturally a certain proportion of recruits are ‘smart’ both to the Army and police.
These people are targeted to be the officers in the police and the police intelligence or Army special operations people.
This is done in conjunction with psychological testing at the time of recruitment.
The aim is to have a body of men (and women) who can execute tedious and psychologically trying work without looking for endless promotion or exiting the service.
I would suggest it has served us well so far, but clearly the Army officers are far better qualified for leadership positions in society.
It is time that the state took advantage of its recruitment policies to leverage these abilities in the (civil) service of the people.
Why would you expect the gentlemen from a class-ridden officers’ mess to be any better qualified than your average public servant?
1 - Because all Army Officers are 3rd level educated.
2 - because they operate in a bureaucratic environment where change and adaptability on short notice are central requirements.
3 - because, in the main, they have experience of foreign culture and travel.
You showed a typical closed Irish mind set by suggesting a ‘class’ difference in the Officer Corps.
The difference is in education, training, discipline and experience.
In that sense, yes, they are a different class to regular public servants.
The same applies to the regular soldiery, incidentally.
Pretty weak reply ps200306, all told.
TBF, the intake of both the police and military everywhere without conscription, not just Ireland, tends to be self-selecting. Both professions attract people with a certain mindset, including in the former, an attitude to law and order that tends to the black and white and in both cases, a tendency to tribalism and and a liking for a highly structured, disciplined, even rigid life. The majority of the ‘smart’ and imaginative probably won’t want to join either institution in the first place.
Incidentally, the military system leads to people becoming highly institutionalised, to the extent that they have real difficulty adjusting to a less structured civilian life. I don’t know about here, but in Britain, ex-squaddies make up a disturbingly large proportion of the homeless.
Well, first off, I just asked a question. Second, my comment about it being “class ridden” was based on anecdotal reports provided to me, not entirely on supposition. And lastly, you seem to be proposing some sort of stiff upper lipped technocracy which it isn’t at all obvious is what we need. I would say our most fundamental need is for public servants who genuinely have the public good as the driver for everything they do. Army-style discipline seems to be the only exceptional attribute you’ve listed. Education, training, and experience is hardly the exclusive domain of army officers.
The military have run some excellent countries. Argentina, Egypt, Pakistan, etc.
What could go wrong?
I have encountered some ex-officers. One thing they share is a huge regard for themself and their army “training”.
I’m not joking one of them said to me “I worked in Intelligence…I could be living in your back garden for a week and you wouldn’t know it”
So what. Everyone is 3rd level educated now.
Please let us not descend into “Our Military is great” wankery that happens in the UK.
It’s not. The smartest kids in school do not join the military in Ireland.
Our officers also have a really unwanted habit of interfering in what they shouldn’t. E.G. the head of the Army who wrote to the papers the day after his retirement wanting more militarisation. By implication he was speaking for our officer class in the military. It was a real low for Ireland.
If that’s an army anatomical euphemism… you shoulda got medieval on his “back garden”!
Note : conflict of interest statement - am an officer in the Reserve Defence Forces.
Officers in PDF ( regulars ) or RDF (reserve ( old FCA )/Slua Muire) come from all walks of life. Although there are indeed 3 messes in most barracks there is no real notion of class. Just because you’re an officer doesn’t mean you’re not the biggest dick in the world, conversely being a Three Star private doesn’t mean you’re Paddy Cleanliving either.
The Irish Defence Forces is quite forthright in telling its chain of command when it has fucked something up royally…
You should’ve told him that if he’d been a a cop you’d be more likely to be living in his back garden.
I have encountered a couple of army officers through work. Always been impressed by their ability to listen, calmly assess information, and clearly formulate and execute a plan. Those skills are pretty valuable in all walks of life, especially business. I don’t know if they would generally fare well in a role that required creative thinking though.
The Irish Army Officer class is not class ridden, it tends if anything to recruit robustly healthy petit bourgeoisie as officers. Officers messes are merely bars the Guards can’t raid because the Guards cannot get past the Guardhouse at the barracks gate. I’ve been in a few until all hours myself.
I’ve also drunk in the Canteen and the NCOs mess.
And there are intelligent guards, there is certainly a culture of pretending they are not intelligent in that organisation…unlike Army Officers who pretend nothing of the sort.
Can we get off these two rather tedious and untrue conversational threads please.
Did anyone get the SBP today, seemingly Judge Peter Kelly gave a speech criticising the government’s record on the issue of judicial independence?