Kickbacks, waste and bogus orders costing CIE millions


True, but my point was that public transport doesn’t have to be either subsidised or expensive. NE is a commercial operation, has been for years and still delivers reasonably cheap middle distance transport with little or no subsidy. It just doesn’t do so on rails. It’s train services run on subsidies, like all the others.
Irish rail travel might be cheap at the point of sale, but you have to account for the cost of that subsidy. Some rail travel can be cheap, or even profitable, but it’s worth remembering that throughout history, most train companies barely covered their operating costs and took decades to amortise their construction costs, if they ever did. The few that made money were mostly high density urban and suburban routes. It’s best if you can build the lines first, hold a land bank around them and then progressively develop it. The Metropolitan Railway in London (the Metropolitan line and later, by merger the District, Central and Bakerloo lines on the Underground) provide a model of how to do it. Buy the land when it’s cheap and then use the railway to raise its value, rather than trying to build a rail system that needs to buy expensive urban land.

Medium density suburbia on greenfield sites is the way to go. You know it makes sense. :wink:


indeed it does seem to make sense
So that ghost town of apt’s and office blocks at Sandyford Cross will soon be a hot spot thanks to the Luas!!!


Yup, it’s just a blip, fill yer boots! 8DD

OK, there’s a small matter that Victorian London was a boom town, running a quarter of the world and Sandyford is, well, Sandyford, but that’s just a minor incidental detail. :laughing:

BTW the Metropolitan railway started extending their line to nowhere in the 1880s and were selling housing estates into the 1930s. Be prepared to be in for the long haul. :wink:


The new fares for Dublin bus, Irish Rail, Bus Eireann (and Luas) are out … r-2012.pdf

Effective Dec 1st, 2012


what a joke. prices are too high as it is and they want more money for a substandard service.


I must say, Dublin Bus is stunningly badly run. I sometimes get a bus into work and on one of the best served QBCs, I regularly find that 20-30% of all the buses passing my stop in rush hour are out of service, while others sail past because they’re full. The former aren’t returning to a depot during a quiet period, this is 8.30-9.00am. How do you screw up your timetabling so badly that you have so many empty buses trundling around during peak time, leaving passengers at the side of the road?


Makes for interesting reading if only to note that the approved increases are, in several cases, **higher **than those increases proposed by Dublin Bus. A genius move, that.


you’d better not read the irish rail fare increases so…


These accounts are from 2011, why do CIE accounts take that long to be published and coincidentally just in time for the budget?
Surely if you are haemorrhaging cash you implement very tight control on cash flow, which mean you need accurate information ASAP.

Looking at Dublin bus before the taxpayer backed subvention they loose €91,060,000 or almost €250,000 per day. After the “income” of €73,032,000, their loss becomes €18,028,000 or almost €50,000 per day.

Their financial report gives no breakdown of passenger numbers or profiles for Dublin bus which are surely an important material factor in their calculations. Anyone got a breakdown on this?. I don’t know how that 400,000 number is arrived at whether it is unique passengers or counts them twice (generally people getting the bus to work or town are also getting the bus home again), so the numbers may well be 200,000 unique passengers per day. I don’t know the breakdown for pensioners, unemployed or students on a typical day, or how their passenger numbers change at the weekend.

Anyway without the granularity of passenger numbers a back of the envelope calculation that would suggest they were making a loss of 63 cents per passenger on each journey before subvention and 13c after the subvention is added. Dublin Bus have eliminated and changed routes over the past few years which should have bought down costs, but has it increased passenger numbers and how would you know if they had?

The passenger breakdown matters, I’ve a long held suspicion that one of the effects of the boom is that many working couples now live and work outside the areas that are not served by Dublin bus. Since the bust the immigrants who used the bus have mostly gone leaving them without a viable passenger base to serve and this means the company must make significant cutbacks in its services and go find new passengers.


                                      2005        2006        2007        2008        2009        2010        2011
Wages and Salaries (1,000s)       €501,096    €517,293    €545,563    €581,818    €563,056    €538,089    €519,163
Social Welfare Costs (1,000s)      €42,492     €44,098     €46,583     €49,753     €48,690     €46,668     €45,886
Other Pension Costs (1,000s)       €39,759     €47,797     €53,005     €44,971     €31,719     €35,869     €34,704
Total Payroll and Pension Cost    €583,347    €609,188    €645,151    €676,542    €643,465    €620,626    €599,753
Number of Employees                 11,926      11,816      11,701      11,848      11,502      10,615      10,398
Average Salary Per Employee        €42,017     €43,779     €46,625     €49,107     €48,953     €50,691     €49,929

Hardly an organisation taking cost savings seriously.

And this does not take into account the continuing and increasing hidden subsidies being received by Dublin Bus in the form of additional bus lanes where large sections of roads are allocated for their exclusive use during most of the day without them having to pay for this.


Varadkar wants transport opened up to private sector … 05368.html

Seems like he’s using the threat of new competition to force CIE to reform quicker

First indication, IMO, of Gov admitting CIE may need a sizeable bail out

#51 … ing30.html

Bus Éireann unveils cost-cutting plan


Howitzer, why do you say “the average gross wage is obviously false”? How else does one calculate the average?

the data posted by jbxr shows average salary (?) is euro 49,929. This is a surprisingly high average for a public transport company.

Here is a piece of data from Singapore. Bus drivers are paid approx Euro 17k p.a. Plus pension top up:

Saturday, Apr 21, 2012
SINGAPORE - SBS Transit bus drivers will get a 16 per cent pay increase from next month onwards, reported the Shin Min Daily News.

Their basic pay will be raised to $1,600, up from $1,375 which was previously reported.

Including overtime pay and allowances, a bus driver will be able to earn an average monthly salary of $2,250 in a year.

According to a statement from SBS Transit, the salary increase will take effect from May onwards.

A spokesperson added that it is hoped the monetary increase will attract more people to take up the job, as with the new measures to be implemented, more bus drivers will be needed.

The news comes after this year’s Budget speech in February, where Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong stated plans to boost bus capacity by about 800 buses over the next five years to reduce crowding and waiting times.

To do this, the Government will be giving a $1.1 billion package to public transport operators to provide new bus services and improve existing ones."


CIE finally got their €36M extra emergency cash … 58330.html


Ah for the fucking love of sweet fucking Jesus, I’m so fucking sick of these useless fucking…


Nope, that’s not the depressing thing:

“However, he said there is a “serious problem” in terms of the gauge of the track, as the carriages are only suitable for tracks in Australia, India and Brazil.”

It seems the carriages we bought don’t fit on our tracks??


No, not that bad, give them some credit…


I don’t think that is what they mean. I think what they mean is that because Ireland uses an almost unique guage of track the opportunities to resell it abroad are limited to the countries mentioned without the carraiges being reboggied or whatever.
Of course it is possible that IE bought the wrong guage carraiges but it is unlikely.


In fact it’s known as Irish Gauge
(more info on that page on where we might sell these carriages… not sure how much work it really is to change the gauge on the carriages, would have thought it was just changing the bogies)


Supposedly the guage was decided upon because it would give no rail company in ireland an advantage as none used it; that’s an Irish solution to an Irish problem.
disclaimer: read this on a message board so needs verification