KPMG partners take action against developers

Linky-link?

Anyway, this brings a whole new level of shite to the mess. Before too long you could have members of families forced to sue each other (in order to get precedence on their claims).

Unluckly for some…

Bear in mind that suing or even receiving judgment does not give priority to your debt. The only way to ensure priority if you don’t already have some security is to get judgment and register a judgment mortgage before the other creditors do.

Bear in mind that the KPMG lads is way down the queue . How many more personal guarantees did this pair give ??

SB Post April 2009

archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/200 … y41176.asp

and

tribune.ie/archive/article/2 … r-quality/

I understand that, but that is in the liquidation/examinership situation. No? Should the banks sell the loans to NAMA as currently set up, the unsecured creditors/investors will be left swinging in the wind. The developers will be untouchables, unless by NAMA in which case, the unsecured creditors/investors get nothing.

At the moment, their state is worth zero. The personal guarantee is their only hope Obi-wan. The NAMA-star is approaching Tattooine and they are hoping for an X-wing-and-a-prayer out. (Yes, I realise Star Wars allusions are the last refuge of an incorrigible sado geek, but it has been a long and trying day!).

These are not the personal guarantees you are looking for…

There are thousands of Accountants and solicitors who saw their developer clients make money hand over fist and decided they wanted a cut of the action.

Many of the accountants in particular had self administered pension funds which sank wads of cash in to the Irish property pyramid scheme.

Many are now in deep trouble.
They are also faced with the double whammy of facing unprecedented drops in their primary sources of income as their clients cannot afford a cup of tea let alone fees.

Had a discussion with a few friends on this topic at the weekend.
I referred to these people as ‘professional-amateurs’.

My point was that there was a lot more wealth wiped out than people think.

Anecdotal I know, but among my parents’ friends this is undoubtedly true. From what I can tell, my parents, who had no direct exposure ot their Irish stockmarket (after two years off lobbying by me) or exposure to property for anything other than its utility value, are in the minority. So many apparently prudent people either had a significant proportion of their money in the shares of the Irish banks, or took large property gambles with their retirement funds. Most of these people will still be able to afford a modest retirement, but their kids will inherit a lot less.

A lot of/most people on higher incomes - estate agents during the boom, solicitors, accountants, engineers - invested their spare cash in property and shares and this wealth has now been completely wiped out.

It’s not just the folks in their thirties who have been devastated financially: it’s those in their forties, fifties and sixties.

Yeah, for all the talk of the massive wealth transfer from young to old that took place with the property boom, the old seem to have largely reinvested either in the same asset class (property) or in shares. What we have seen is wealth destruction on a massive scale, not necessarily transfers that still exist.

Actually many wont even be able to afford this.
Pretty much every late-50s, early 60s person I know who was due to retire … now can’t.
I know a few multi-millionaires who have been completely wiped out.

The psychological impact on these people has been immense.
Previous feelings of safety and wealth have been replaced with genuine fear.

I am talking solicitors and doctors with the odd splattering of accountants (traditionally conservative investors) etc.

This concurs with everything I’m hearing.

Many of these people still have access to credit and reasonable cash flow but the underlying position is dire. Those who felt richest because bubblenomics worked for them and their leveraging are now in serious guacamole.

The back up liquidity to cover leverging they had on property was in many cases bank shares…
oops.

My brother in law lost approx €25K on Anglo and BOI shares :open_mouth:

I agree. But how does this square with talk of the cash rich “smart money” that bailed out in 2006/2007 and is now waiting in the wings to swoop down and gobble up bargain properties? I’ve spoken to a lot of friends who believe that there is still a vast pool of bubblicious cash out there. I can’t see it myself; the temptation to re-invest must have been overwhelming.

Not to mention tax efficient. And therein lies the rub. Taxes are dead money. Yes, well, unless you stick your money on a tax-free horse and it loses…

Unfortunately

a lot of it was invested
many in leveraged vehicles
which have tanked

Quinlan and and Friends First and the Private Banking arms of BoI and AIB could tell you where a lot of this cash went.

You would laugh …were they not leveraged 80% on an asset worth 60% and therefore the ‘investors’ are completely wiped out in many of these schemes. This article explains it all rather well . In some cases the banks have recourse to the shortfall on top of the wipeout, in other cases there is no recourse.

archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/200 … y23075.asp

Not to mention Goodbody Davy and some under the radar outfits like Augusta , CMC , Jaguar and quite a few spun out of acountancy companies …not all top four either.

ask JP or Magnier about tax free horses! XD