Labour Court recommends halving public service sick pay ent

Sick leave entitlements for almost 300,000 public servants are to be halved following a Labour Court recommendation issued today.

rte.ie/news/2012/0719/public … alved.html

What kind of non-critical illness could see you miss over 6 months of work but still see you have a realistic possibility of returning to work?

It was 6 months over a rolling 4 years so you could have a chronic illness or disability where you have bouts of illness like diabetis, lupus etc and be off for two weeks every few months given that the civil service is obliged to fill 3% of its post with people with disabilities they are obliged to provide the supports to allow people to look after their health appropriately. No one wants to protect wasters taking the piss but we should not punish people with Ill
health. Unless we want to pay for huge numbers to claim invalidity benefit

Oh dear, brace yourself :slight_smile:

It doesn’t have to be altogether in one absence.

It was/is available to all PS workers though - not only those with a chronic illness. And it has been clarified that people with “chronic illnesss”, will not lose this, as is right.

No the exception is for critical illness not chronic the definition of critical is life threatening ie cancer it is clear from the press release that chronic illness is not covered. Therefore we now have the situation that after taking 14 weeks of sick leave in a 4 year period your pay is halved

How does this compare to the private sector generally? I know in my place of employment we are entitled to 5 days certified sick leave on a 12 month rolling basis. Anything after that is unpaid. There is management discretion but I know of people being in hospital very ill (but not life threatening) for a number of weeks and it still being unpaid after the 5 days.

In my part of the private sector (self-employed) there is zero sick leave entitlelment!

But you have a wonderful boss who understands you completely. :smiley:

I have the boss from hell. :frowning:

No sick leave entitlement whatsoever in mine, if you don’t come in you don’t get paid simple as that. That type of arrangement seems very common to me in the SME IT sector.

Depends on the company. I know mine is quite generous. My contract says three days paid uncertified and up to three months fully paid certified. Don’t think there is any half pay element. However, managers are given a lot of discretion and tend to be quite favourable towards the employee. The attitude of the company is largely that the manager will know who does and doesn’t tend to take liberties and allow them to react accordingly.

I am fortunate enough to have never had to take a day’s sick leave in ten years of working but having previously worked in the public sector I am shocked by the disparity of attitudes to sickness between public and private (from what I have experienced). In the public sector agency I worked in, employees had to report to their line manager upon returning from sick leave and explain their illness (certified or not). One woman I know was called to HR and asked to explain why she was out for a whole week with the flu. As she told HR, “I don’t know, I’m not a doctor, I told the doctor that I thought it was quite a long time to take off but he insisted it was better to be safe given the strain that was going around”. Suspicion and mistrust seems to be the order of the day. That never bothers the actual scammers of which there appear to be many, but it’s probably very distressing for everyone else. I know one man who found having to discuss his irritable bowel problems with a female line manager, acutely embarrassing. And I imagine most sane male managers will want any conversation with a female subordinate about any illness or problem they had, to be ended with the fewest possible words spoken.

I think the proposals are reasonably fair but I don’t think they’ll deliver huge savings on the public sector bill apart from the odd area like teaching where a replacement must be sought to directly cover even short illnesses. I’m in favour of reasonably generous sick leave entitlements but I do think they should have some impact on holiday entitlements. I lost count of the number of people in the public sector who could be out for a few weeks on sick leave only to return for a few days and then take a few weeks holidays for themselves.

Just want to support the above post - I strongly believe the employee should never have to discuss their illness with anyone other than a company doctor.

Sorry Orlaigh, I meant critical illness.

But what do diabetics and lupus sufferers in the private sector do? Chances are if they have such absences then they lose their jobs.

Teaching, Nurses, Guards, and for that matter most of the employees in hospitals and I’d guess the prison service.
Sick teachers are covered by subs, sick nurses are covered by bank nurses, not sure about the guards.

A large proportion of the public sector pay bill requires cover arrangements when they’re outsick

When I was in the Civil Service in the 1980s I can clearly remember a female colleague going on sick leave after her budgie died! This is no word of a lie…she was in bits the morning after the bereavment, went home at lunchtime and was off for several days! (She had no leave left at the time and was given sick leave by a sympathetic HEO.)

I think it’s just so unfair that the piss takers have ruined sick leave entitlement for the rest. I rarely take a day off sick but I always felt happy knowing it was there if I really needed it. I don’t blame the government for this move. It just feels like a race to the bottom. I work in a very specialised field & am now training to do a job in the private sector. Who with any brain will want to work in the public sector in the future? I couldn’t afford a decent house in Dubln on my what others seem to think exhalted wages (50k after 20 years in my field). We’ll end up with crap pensions and entitlements. Noone with any intelligence I reckon.

I’d guess that most public servants are happy to see this, as it must be depressing to have worked with minimal sick leave but then see their overall department statistics published year after year with 100%+ days more lost than in the private sector.

I’m hoping a side effect of this will be that we’ll never hear again of disgraced public servants who in any normal job would be fired, but instead somehow end up out on stress/depression related sick leave for a couple years. Often long enough until they can collect their retirement entitlements. I think this was the default option for the appalling Gardai embarrassed at the Morris Tribunal.

They have hardly “ruined” sick leave entitlement. You get 3 months fully paid over a four year period. If you are rarely off sick then you will have absolutely no issue. After this 3 months you get another 3 months on half pay. This is still incredibly generous. So essentially you are covered for at least 75% of your wages for 6 months every 4 years. That translates into missing 1 out of every 8 days work… :angry:

You’re in the top 21% of earners in the country and about 10% above the Dublin median salary. You’re on an excellent salary by any measure.

Whether earning an excellent salary in Ireland leads to an excellent lifestyle is a whole other issue.

Yes, I think that’s likely. If you’re going to the doctor for a cert anyway, you’re a lot more likely to be signed off for multiple days. e.g. Go on a Wednesday and you’ll likely be signed off until the following Monday.