Limit for Gov Borrowing on Markets to be Reached "Next Year"

An article in today’s Sunday Business Post is truly shocking (altough not a surprise):

The biggest nugget:


Full story: … qqqx=1.asp

This is not the 1980s, not the 1950s nor the 1930s.

This State is truly on the verge of bankruptcy. The madness of the last few years, the Government mismangement, property bubble mania…the country is about to pay the ultimate price.

Been lots of scary stories around recently, but I think this one is the scariest yet. What the hell happens when the government can’t borrow any more? And what the hell happens if that occurs inside a year?

I don’t want to go over the top here, here’s Section 8 of the PREVENTION OF CORRUPTION (AMENDMENT) ACT, 2001.:

As well as this Act, we also have the constitution, which has stuff about the welfare of all people, the common good etc., which presumably a Taoiseach has the responsibility to uphold (although he doesn’t swear an oath of office I don’t think).

I’d contend that the evidence we now have is that in discharging his duties as Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern knowingly and/or recklessly disregarded these provisions of the constitution, and that he gained an enormous amount in a personal political sense in contravention of the 2001 Act: “obtaining a gift, consideration or advantage for himself…” says the Act. Well, he obtained considerable advantage to himself, and in the course of meeting that end failed to safeguard the country’s finances to the detriment of the greater good. That is the Act’s very definition of corruption: personal “advantage” over public good.

I know it’s grasping at straws but these wankers MUST HAVE KNOWN what was going on. They must have. It is totally fucking IMPOSSIBLE that they didn’t know that our economy was a lopsided sham, or that uncontrolled mortgage lending was deeply harmful, or that there was bewildeing mis-management and corruption in state bodies, or that bankers were reckless, or that consumer debt was out of control, or that price fixing was going on in the housing market, or that a 25 year old on a 40 year mortgage for a shoebox in Adamstown was a terrible idea etc. etc. etc. etc. And if they DID know, then their disregard for all this in return for “advantage” is an offence. No?

Basically, I call fucking sedition on Bertie and Cowan. I just cannot bear this crap anymore.

LIBEL WATCH: Mods, I think all this is fair comment based on reasonable citation, argument and evidence. It might be mistaken or technically incorrect, but no judge could say it is an unreasonable, gratuitously malicious or unfair comment.

I agree. And it’s not just politicians who are acting recklessly. It’s pension trustees, local authorities (clocking up huge overdrafts that are “guaranteed by central government”) and certain financial institutions.

If you were running a small business, you’d be in court facing charges for reckless trading.

Mmm. Now what’s that quote again about stealing large sums makes you a king, small sums a thieving criminal…

The system seems to be almost defunct. It seems possible at this point that we’re heading into a 1989 Eastern Europe type scenario where things will actually just grind to a halt.

But we’re stuck in (Dirty) Harry Callaghan mode…

“I hate the God damn system but until someone comes along with some changes that make sense, Ill stick with it”


Yeah, we’ve been talking about this for a while here, “who is going to buy all these bonds” and all that. The ECB will, I believe, step in and buy up to certain limits. However, they will only buy up to certain limits which still means a whole world of pain for Ireland. When the commission rapped McCreevy on the wrist for running a structural deficit, more people should have taken notice instead of puffing up their green shirts and singing “The Sea, Oh The Sea”.

If my memory of the constitution is correct, then the President holds ultimate responsibility for the protection of the constitution. So, in theory, if the President’s approved government is in derogation of that duty to uphold the constitution, then the President would be within her rights to dissolve such a negligent government.

If there are breaches of the constitution, then a letter to President McAleese might be the ticket!

I’ve been saying it for years, and I do think there may well be enough hard evidence now to take a case against every member of the Ahern governments for subversive activity designed to overthrow the State. As Larry said, it is IMPOSSIBLE that they did not know or understand exactly what was going on. They were just trying to line their own pockets with enough cash before the whole ship hit the rocks, IMO.

National traitors, each and every one, and they should all be spending 25 years in Portlaoise.

The timelines are now converging for a complete industrial collapse; monetary and financial system collapse; and the bankruptcy of the State itself, around June 2009. Game Over, it seems. It’s too late now to stop the winding up of the Republic Of Ireland as an independent entity in the second half of next year.

Having heard many of them on the TV/radio over the years, I disagree! They have always come across as incompetent/ignorant/directionless/visionless to me, I may be in the minority I accept.

You’re not alone in the minority then! I also think they are too stupid to understand what is going on, both in terms of thinking beyond the next election (whether that be european, council or national) and even in terms of thinking beyond the next opinion poll. Politicians of every strand have two priorities, a minor and a major - the minor is to be liked by their constituency, the major is to be re-elected.

i was thinking March.

holy crap…

Wanna make a considered judgementof where we will be in june?

We already know we’re in monetary deflation and the total amount of credit outstanding will begin falling somewhere between March and June, which inevitably leads to a massive banking collapse. We already know the State’s debt rating is plummeting, and that they will simply not be able to raise the money they need, therefore the entire public sector will grind to a halt with a massive forced cull at around the same time. We already know that every single sector of the economy was contracting rapidly and now agriculture is completely fubard, so we will have a collapse in employment in agribusiness, manufacturing, services and retail in H1. All our major trading partners are in recession too. And zero possibilities for any growth in any sector that I am aware of.

I just can’t see any way out of this one.

Well it’s costing us a billion a month on our current course.

Entire gubberment expenditure is around €40-€45 billion.

We can only continue along this failed route for a couple more months.

My money’s on a Valentine’s budget, announced early January once the gubberment realise they’ve lost out on yet another €1bn+ due to the Xmas retail blitz that never happened.

We need to fire about 10% of all government employees, or force everyone to take a 10%+ pay-cut (probably both).

Hospitals and schools ought to be prioritised above all else. Policing should also be exempted from cut-backs; particularly upping the monitoring of dissident groups who tend to thrive in the middle of political upheaval.

where does that leave mortgage holders who have either no pay or no job. (notice the subtle suggestion)

Whilst i sympathise with those appalled that the goverment would “bail out” mortgage holders, can the goverment throw them to the wolves?

I really believe, that given the current problems, a moratorium on mortgages may well be nesessity.

Else how does the govement operate if large swathes of the mortgaged public fall down? this samll economysurely could not survive such a shock.

Jeysus, intresting times indeed

This “moratorium on mortgages” is a load of crap.

Why don’t we give everyone a moratorium on their unsecured loans used to purchase holidays and consumer products? One for everybody in the audience like?

We already have loads of mechanisms in place to protect the family home. A Minister who repackages what’s already there and sells it on to the dumbed-down masses as a “moratorium on mortgages” is nothing more than a sly middle-man out to make a quick buck.

If you’re living in a €400k house that you can’t afford anymore, you must hand it back. You’ll probably have 6 months, maybe longer, but living in rented/social welfare accommodation isn’t the end of the world. You may even be able to buy a gaff for €200k and get a job nearby working as a farm labourer. There are people with worse problems.

agree. you have to draw the line somewhere and people with hefty mortgages and negative equity are waaaaayy down my list. its moral hazard whatever way you look at it. private gain if this whole debacle never happened, public loss when we have to bail you out. buying a house is no different to buying stocks in a company. don’t like that? rent. didn’t do that? tough shit.

there should be 3 priorities for the govt with any future budgetting. in order:

  1. health care
  2. education
  3. policing

everything after that i suspect is fair game.

We can’t afford to pay for a mortgage moratorium the government would have to borrow to pay for it.

While I agree with your post I think the priorities are health, policing and then education. This should also include the policing of the education budget to ensure its spent educating pupils and not enriching teachers salaries or pensions.