Lisa needs braces ...

A creamy pint for the best suggestion that enables the government to force prices higher. :angry:

Talk about catch 22. What’s driving up prices is the restricted supply. If NAMA release what’s on their books then supply increases and prices go down. An extra billion worth of property in Dublin would see supply increase to meet demand and the figures suggest they’ve a lot more than a billion in Dublin. If NAMA wont take a hit on prices then the market will remain choked for years and if they do the tax payer will suffer the consequence. Either way, the man on the street is going to pay for this mess.

“IS” not “going to” … “IS”

I agree partially with the IS part but with national debt still increasing it’s like we are paying interest only on what we owe and still can’t even manage that. The government had hoped and probably still does hope that NAMA can make a big hit into the capital. If they are to do that then we pay more for houses and if they don’t then the government will have to reevaluate future budgets and perhaps we will have a lot more austerity budgets than what’s being talked about at present.

What do NAMA have on their books? From memory - IIRC, 75% of what they have is already occupied, leaving only something like 3000 units unoccupied - nationwide. I think their ability to affect supply is massively overestimated.

OR… here’s an idea…. they could do what they were fucking elected to do and negotiate a reduction in the odious debt burden on the Irish state. Have you noticed how quiet it’s gotten on that subject?

Taxes to pay for the bailout
Rents increased to pay for the bailout
Property prices to pay for the bailout
higher cost of living driven by all of the above, to pay for the bailout

What makes me particularly angry is how cowardly and sneaky they are being. No principles, no coherent plan, just putting the squeeze on the dumb fuck taxpayer in as many ways as possible so that he doesn’t notice he’s being screwed - all to pay for the banks bailout and NAMA and all to cover for their failure to do what they were elected to do.

I really wish a FG canvasser had come to my door.

You do realise that the EU/IMF bailout financed the (ongoing) deficit in Exchequer receipts versus spending? The bank bailout is about 25% of our total national debt. And that €64 billion has been reduced by repayments from certain banks to the Exchequer (and further such repayments will occur).

Does that include AIB shares in lieu of actual cash ?

Well, in respect of BoI, the State put in €5.8 billion and has got back (including fees) around €6.7 billion thus far, ie a profit, plus the State still holds a 15% stake (worth over a billion). The long term value of the State’s “investment” in AIB (which cost a lot more) is less certain, but the Minister for Finance said recently it could be worth €10 or €11 billion.

And the repayments from Anglo, Irish Nationwide etc etc ?

If the government had decided to run a balanced budget back in 2009, rather than phasing in the adjustments over many years, would it have killed the economy?

Would there have been riots in the street?

The drip-drip, tax-tax, cut-cut year after year is hardly great for consumer or business confidence, or the deficit for that matter.

  • Have you included the cost of deploying 5.8bn in your calcs there? Have you included the time and effort in government admin to deploy that capital? Have you factored in how much more costly the rest of the Governments debt has become because of this additional government expenditure?

Its a paper value. Cash is king, and trying to offload that kind of level of shares would require a deep discount. Other owners of BOI have cashed out, so they are unlikely to want this action.

If Noonan said is so, it must be so. On the AIB thread it discusses the true value of AIB shares.

No but it is sustaining the property bubble reinflation, and it will have to be tackled and paid back sooner or later.

To think there are people clambering over each other to ‘get on the ladder’ while the country’s books are in such a perilous state. Don’t think that ever happened before, but the british and irish have become property junkies. It is addiction.

No sane person would think the bank bailout was a great move by the Irish State. Putting €34 billion into Anglo was appalling, but equally, allowing AIB and BoI to collapse was not an option. But at the same time there is a pervasive myth that all the ‘austerity’ of the past 6 years has been the result of the bank bailout, and that that was only done at the behest of the ECB to save German/French bondholders. This myth is peddled by people who should know better (stand up Fintan O’Toole).

People between the ages of 20 and 45 need to wake up and tell the Government to get stuffed if they think that they can foist all this pain on that generation. The idea of increasing demand by backstopping mortgages when there is a shortage of supply is grossly offensive to people struggling to buy a house rather than servicing other people’s mortgages in the rental market. It should be dawning on that generation that the Government’s solution to the problem is to sign them up to debt-slavery. The absolute incoherency of the FG plan is testament to their stupidity and utter lack of concern for the pain they are causing people.

Not being argumentative, but what’s so special about people of that age? Didn’t the older ones in that cohort cause half the problem? Just like they are again right now, storing up the next set of problems by bidding up our latest pathological housing market. Perhaps one could have a little sympathy the first time round, but falling for the same tricks twice in a decade is more than a little careless.