Looks like a low turnout at the next election

Talking about a revolution - DAVID MACWILLAMS -> sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/whole … qqqx=1.asp

The same sentiment has been expressed on here over the past several months the main opposition is equally clueless and does not have any solution or direction to present, they have even acquiesced to rule from Europe and any debates are merely sham fights in the Dail that the population at large sees through. Who to choose the bumbling “Tony Blair” wanna be Enda Kenny or the empty “Obama change” promises of the Labour party or stay at home?

The “they’re all the same” doctrine is not one I’m prepared to sign up to. Even if it’s true. It’s intellectually lazy and despairing to the point of nihilism. It stinks of the kind of thing people say when they couldn’t be arsed to pay attention or form their own opinions. Or because they know nothing about politics and so lean on sweeping contempt to compensate. It’s what the herd mooo.

The main opposition are also made up of school teachers, small town solicitors, publicans and book keepers so in many peoples eyes they are the same mindset that got us where we are. The main opposition parties have put up a shield of meaningless public relations marketing spin to disguise the fact they are paralysed by fear and each is looking to Europe for salvation, they’ve no ideas beyond that. “Morkeshing campaigns” won’t get us out of this crisis, can you blame the public for writing them off as “all the same”?

Yes I can because about the only people I have less respect for than politicians is the electorate.

Ed: Christ, that sounds so sour. I’m in a very grumpy mood this morning.

So in what constituency are you running boyracer?

I think it’s not so much a “they’re all the same” as much as “they’re not different enough”. I’ll still vote for someone, but I understand the feeling. In particular, the cronyism and gombeenism that FF have come to embody exists in the other parties. Michael Lowry was, after all, FG. The two new candidates for FG in Laois-Offaly are local councillors; there’s not a council in the area that has a good reputation. There’s no firm commitment from anyone to abolish the pork boards that get stuffed with ministerial nominees. There’s no firm commitment to restore FOI and indeed extend it. There is a culture of secrecy. It breeds mistrust. The breed of people who go into politics in Ireland has a majority rotten element.

“The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

Winston Churchill

I’ll welcome anyone in Government who has basic book-keeping skills!! :smiley:

There are plenty with accounting qualifications, but none with the ability to balance books.

‘Breed’ may be a good word - wasn’t Elaine Byrne saying something yesterday on Marian Finnucane’s programme about a vast proportion of those nominated across the country so far being part of dynasties of one kind or another according to research done by someone recently?

As an aside, the two FG candidates are interesting. Marcella Corcoran Kennedy is a good politician - I wouldn’t be sorry to see her as a TD here. Her stint on the council was a refreshing breath of air and she stood up well to the flakies. She lost her seat last time around. She has potential to be very good. Liam Quinn is a very young man, sharp and new. It will be interesting to see how he goes.

What’s more interesting is that they’ve left room for someone else to parachute in (wouldn’t be FG otherwise) and Labour, who have a tough enough time in the constituency, have effectively parachuted in John Whelan, weeks before convention. That’s unemployed John Whelan, former editor of the Leinster Express and erstwhile scribe with the Sindo. He who was spokesperson for the unemployed in a lot of media a year or so ago.

McWilliams is making the mistake of thinking that the kind of people who go to his show are representative of the electorate generally.

Just listening to Isabelle Allende speaking on ted.com

The presentation is in the context of living passionately and there’s a distinct feminist bias. She speaks a lot about those who work and have worked on behalf of women, the kind of people who probably won’t vote in the election here, whenever it suits the VIs to have it. That said, it’s not an argument about women, it’s about power, who has it and what they do with it.

ted.com/talks/lang/eng/isabe … ssion.html

Lowry was shown the door though and not let back in. In FF he would be back on the front bench by now.
I agree wholeheartedly with Larry.“They’re all the same” mantra suits FF very well.With regard the opposition being more of the same regarding their occupations,I don’t think that is the case.

In the Dail, I think that description would encompass a librarian.

I don’t think that he is . The real disaster for Ireland is that there is no opposition . Enda Kenny is weak and FG generally is gray with no real policies either way . Labour is made up of ex Official IRA and Worker Party types who peddle old Socialist ideas . The traditional FF vote will swing towards Sinn Fein because they can’t stomach FG or Labour .

The greatest economic disaster to ever befall Ireland should of had a opposition party who have been out of power for 13 years topping the poll with a approval rating of 90 % ! .

Although admittedly simplistic, that is pretty much the way I see it.
I’ve always felt the sign of a healthy democracy is in the strength of the opposition.
FF have brought this country beyond bankrupcy.
FG should be the natural alternative for FFs disaffected voters and, if they had a half-decent leadership, would be looking at a massive overall majority.

Enda is FGs biggest liability.
I’m sure he’s an excellent administrator and party organiser, but he has zero leadership charisma.
Unfortunately the man comes across as a complete plank on TV, and given thats where most potential voters have their only interaction with him, he fails big time.
I despise style over substance, but in this age of TV and internet, even I acknowledge the importance of presentation skills.
To his and the partys detriment, Enda has none.

It bugs me no end when I see FG supporters point to Endas ‘success’ in ‘rescuing the party’.
For a party thats (supposedly) heavy on economics, someone needs to explain to them the concept of opportunity cost.

Up Mayo!

Based on more than four decades of hearing "sure they are all the same " I can tell you that almost without exception when people use this phrase in a discussion that they are members of the me fein party - i.e core or floating FF voters. You will hear plenty of grumbling about politicians from members of the “anyone but FF” party but it rarely strays into the trite cop-out, sure they’re all the same. It tends to fall in the range of complaints you hear against the political class in any other country.

I actually think FG will get a surge at the election and I would not be overly surprised to see them with an overall majority. There front banch may contradict each other all the time but they do have lots of policies. The problem is they are not coherent. I blame Kenny for that. He simply does not have the brains for the job imho. I expect Cowen to do to him what Bertie did to him before in the leaders debate. However, I don’t think it will do Cowen any good.

I think you’re right.

Not so sure about that.

Frankly, I see this as a good thing. Bouncing ideas about in public is preferable to bouncing them around in private and choosing the one that suits the party.

It’s not necessarily a bar to be a lightweight. Lord Liverpool’s administration (Britain, 1815+) was full of hugely talented people, held together by his ability to get on with disagreement and to get others to do the same. It may not look great, but if the policies enacted by each of the individual ministers are good, then I don’t really care if the T-shop doesn’t have a clue what they are on about.