Lost generation.

irishtimes.com/newspaper/wee … tml?via=mr

Article about how people in their early twenties are finding it tough to get a job because of the recession. While I feel sorry for anyone thrown onto the dole (been there done that, couldn’t afford the teeshirt) I think a lot of the problem is not so much the recession but being brought up in Ireland in the past 8 years.
Let me list the training or skill sets to explain my point,
#1 Age 22. Flight instructor.
#2 Age 28. Painter. (no problem there)
#3 Age 22. Sound Engineer.
#4 Age 21. Sports and Leisure management.
#5. Age 26. Sales. (fair enough).
#6. Age 24. Interior design. (just started a four year course…).
#7. Age 23. Film and TV.

Now, I have to ask, do we have career guidance teachers in this land? Have the parents of this country just said, era study what you want, follow your dreams. Don’t worry about employment prospects in what you want to study. Or have they had no say in the matter. Maybe the reporter was being very selective to make a good story but from what I can see the only thing missing is a telephone sanitizer.

We’re building these Arks you see, all of the above professions all take slots on the B Ark, they get to escape Ireland 'cos it’s doomed…


What a horrible set of people.

All pie in teh sky career choices. I hate the way this country will support some 24 year old in a bullshit college course with full dole money for 4 years. Sound engineering is just a joke moneymaking course. TV and Film? Jesus wept.

It must be great being you, Buddy…

Read what the sound engineer chap said and kindly let me know what makes him “horrible” in your view.

Jesus wept indeed.

FB2. I fail to understand why you think it’s OK to be an unemployed Painter but not an unemployed Flight instructor. For me any 22 year old who has managed to achieve that, has balls of steel and will find a way to do what is obviously a passion, rather than a simple job choice.
You seem to ‘approve’ of the obvious job titles of Painter and Sales person yet disapprove of the others which indicate a personal interest in the chosen careers. To me the ones who chose to make a career out of what really gives them a buzz have a huge advantage over the others, if you really want something, you will find a way to do it, regardless of the obstacles.

buddygunz , I’m not quite sure exactly what your objections are to the above career choices as you are not articulate enough to express them.
FYII have worked one of the “joke moneymaking, jesus wept” industries for about 12 years now, I work very hard, very long hours and make a very good living out of it. I do a job that I love, and I hope those kids find a way to do what they love to do as well.
For youngsters they seemed remarkably clued in to me.

You should try some herbal teas or shit like that. That not working something like largactil or plain ol prozac or whatever.

Here are the top 15 Job Listings in America for November 2009.
Its important to do what you like doing, because whilst its crazy to learn a profession just for the money, its also impossible to know what jobs will be in demand by the time you qualify.

Physical Therapists
Tax Professional/Tax Preparer - CPAs and others
Independent Beauty Consultants - contractor positions.
Occupational Therapists
Assistant Managers
Sales Associates (Salespersons)
Family Practice Physicians
Sales Representatives
Internal Medicine Specialist Physicians
Store Managers
Registered Nurses (RNs)
Restaurant / Food Service Crew
Restaurant / Food Service Shift Supervisors
Physical Therapy Assistants



Career guidance in school is a pot-luck affair. Choices made have more to do with how we teach and how previous generations view work than the provision of courses. Exams focus on material rather than skills. We don’t give kids enough credit for knowing what they like and we don’t encourage them to do what they like and do it really, really well. Students are told to ‘keep their options open’ when making subject choices when really they should be doing what they love. In effect we’re telling them from the age of 12 or 13 not to trust their instincts or their own strengths and abilities. They leave school with information but little in the line of skills and even less in the sense of having an entrepreneurial, confident sense of themselves and their own abilities. Career guidance is career focussed, not student focussed, despite the daft testing that parents and schools pay a fortune for.

Maybe it’s because we’re not long off the land but we value what have traditionally been viewed as safe jobs - in the banks, civil service and latterly in multinational IT and science-based industry. Perhaps it’s that nasty divisive split between secondary and vocational schools which reinforced a long-held belief that trades are of less worth than services. Or, before the boom, that tradespeople knew their place. As a student in Germany in the 90s I was taken aback at the reverence for skilled crafts and tradespeople there that I hadn’t seen while I was growing up.

Then we had the boom and thousands of young men who would probably have done something else but for the lure of extortionate hourly and block rates, took on jobs and trades their hearts really weren’t in. When their employers go bust, they have neither interest nor initiative to source niche jobs for themselves. They just weren’t that into it anyway.

We’re also not good at making a distinction between a job, a career and a way of living. When people haven’t a kind of harmony between what they want to do with their lives and how they want to make money and indeed, how much money they want to have they end up paralysed and doing nothing at all on the dole rather than making some kind of progress and they’re always looking for someone else to provide the job rather than creating it themselves or with someone else.

All of those individuals mentioned in the article have the capacity to make a living from the skills that they have, but they may not have the internal resources to help them see how to do that.

The OP has taken a rather utilitarian view of the circumstances, but there’s more to it than that. They’re not necessarily jobless because of the recession or because their parents told them to follow their dreams. If they were doing that, they’d be working somewhere, doing something, setting up something, volunteering, anything other than waiting for someone to hand them a job.

This post tells a huge amount…

So the jobs are in Restaurants, Shops, Finance, and Health Care.

Somethings missing…

All of them in the FIRE economy, or mostly dependent on consumer spending, which is in term driven by lending. Most of the US and UK economy is driven by investment in consumption and not by investment in production.

It seems to me one of the problems with Irish society and the Irish economy is the strictly utilitarian approach many have to education, where aptitude and desire have less to do with one’s educational path than financial prospects and social prestige. You simply will not develop a knowledge economy full of creative, independent thinkers and risk-taking entrepreneurs if the entire system is set up to reward only ‘practical’ choices. Worse, if social stigma attaches to supposedly impractical subjects, you can forget about this country ever - I mean ever - generating a worthwhile new idea. Also, the notion that what you study for three or four years in early adulthood determines your career options for a lifetime is shortsighted and counterproductive. People learn their whole lives and flexible thinkers and doers are more valuable in the long term. Credentialism is stultifying.

The B ark set sail from Limerick last year Nate, covered here at the time.

My point is more on the specialization of the subjects and the job prospects. The idea that someone wants to follow their dreams is great. But if a large number of people follow the same dream and there is no outlet at the end then it seems to me that this time spent for many has put them into a work place where they have to compete with others with a more practical training in putting food on the table. I don’t disagree with the point made that if we corral everyone into becoming an accountant or a teacher then the country is doomed as the creative sector disappears. (no jokes about creative accountants please)
What struck me is the lack of transferable soft skills of many of the mentioned careers. Look by two years time we will have a couple of hundred CSI addicted Medical Scientists graduated. If they can’t get a job analysing tissue samples in a hospital, then fine. Get a job as a lab tech, apply to work in the pharma sector. They will be PC literate, understand quality and cGMP, the job prospects are wide and varied. Can you say the same for many of the jobs above.
That’s my point. I’m not having a go at the professions mentioned, I’m having a go at what I see as people studying courses with very few job prospects. Only the most determined/lucky will get into these posts. What do ya do with those who don’t?

Unfortunately, employers are demanding fully trained identikit ‘resources’ for their ‘organisations’. They don’t do training any more. When I was a lad, a company would take you on and train you in what they wanted you to do and how they wanted you to do it…

Very poor article. Even in the best of times sound engineering, film & TV and flight instructor are courses which probably won’t lead to a job.

What I find amazing is the girl doing interior design. Hasn’t she learnt anything from her experience? Fluffy courses are not good for finding a job.

Someone should be telling these people that science/engineering is the way to go. I understand these subjects aren’t for everyone, but doing things like a FOUR YEAR (WTF?!) interior design course is a waste of time.

I followed my dream and still do, although almost two decades later financially it hasn’t paid off. However the pursuit of my personal interests diverted me from settling for what everyone said was easy, property.
I think Springsteen said it best;
“To settle back is to settle without knowing the hard edge that you’re settling for.”

While awareness of the job market is practical, to pursue a course of study to get a job that pays well today is pointless when you consider that following your interests may as easily deliver the same net pay.

I know plenty of friends that played safe career wise but loaded up on property just so they could retire early to pursue what they really wanted to do in the first place. They now struggle financially and their ambitions are indefinitely postponed while they work for their new boss, NE; too small for NAMA, too big for MABS.

Too true , how very well put :frowning:

This is interesting. I was thinking about it before I saw this thread and was thinking of starting a thread myself as I have a query.
I have a friend with a nineteen year old son. He is out of work.
He is very hard working and actually really loves working. He particularly likes mechanical work and skilled manual type work. Has applied for every single job that has come up and is continually sending out his CV unsolicited type of thing.
He has done a Fas course in warehouse management (or something like that) and go a work experience position from it. His employer extended and extended the work experience as he was such a good worker but at the end of the day he didn’t have a position to offer him and there were limits to how long you can extend the work experience thing with Fas.
He is ineligible to do another Fas course as there is some kind of rationing thing going on.
His mum is willing to pay for some kind of course.

Have any of you got any ideas what kind of course (non academic) might actually lead to the chance of a job?
Any ideas most welcome.

Sign up for a beginners course in German or Dutch. If he is a hard worker he’ll do okay in a country that recognises hard work. Tell him to get out of dodge for a few years and enjoy himself. The only thing you end up with here when you are on the dole is a single figure pitch and putt handicap. He sounds like the sort of lad that would thrive given the right start. It might do him the world of good not being stuck here living on hand outs, drinking too much and spending half the day in the scratcher. Especially at that age, it would build a lot of self esteem if he was out there standing on his own two feet.

What about an apprenticeship up North or across the water?