Mary Hanafin calls David McWilliams "scandalous"


#12

They all need to be swept away by a single term but largely independent and sentient political brush that will excise their pensions and their parachutes and their expenses and cars forever. We cannot afford to let country solicitors and auctioneers and publicans and schoolteacher run this place ever again. Nor should we fund them in their retirement.

Scum :frowning:


#13

Maybe she’s talking about what ‘the government’ made out of the guarantee, rather than the taxpayer ?

That’d be about what I’d expect for that level of favour from an FF Cabinet :angry: :nin


#14

@2Pack

Oi mate ! I’ll have you know that not all country solicitors subscribe to that mob’s philosophy and I have the charge sheets to prove it ! :mrgreen:


#15

Just listened to this …someone of the McWilliams standing must know thru the grapevine of the polically connected dirty linen thats in Anglo /AIB. Ansbacher anyone ???


#16

QFT.

What is truly scandalous is the state of the country. Who’s responsible for that Mary?


#17

[presenter 1] What he said was, among other things he talked for instance about EU directives and he says and I quote “I’m not saying on the record of this house that it is not legislatively competent to impose haircuts on creditors, but were we to impose haircuts on senior bond holders, equivalent haircuts would require to be imposed on depositors” and anyone of the opposition benches I think who would demand this reneging of the senior debt will have to take the kind of legal advice that presumably Mr. Lenihan has taken?

[presenter 2] You’re shaking your head David

[David McWilliams] Because it is complete nonsense. The United States closed down a hundred and eight banks this year. They looked after depositors, and they got liquidators to do a deal with the bond holders. This is like a lot of Mr. Lenihans economics “fantasyland” and, I think what really is the crux of the issue here is that, we need to ask very simple questions of a very small amount of people who are making these huge decisions on our behalf. Now the gentleman said there you’re trading in fear, or you’re doom and gloom. The people who visited doom on this country were the spoofers who said everything was going to be alright, there’s going to be a soft landing, they created the doom, not people like me who said we are in for a hard landing, and the trading in fear…were people like me trading in fear when I came in this studio with Mr. Lenihan two years ago and said the banks were shaky and he said ooh that’s dangerous talk David. So…

[presenter 2] OK

[DMcW] what are we…

[presenter 2] just to clarify on the senior bond holders, if it is possible to do some class of a deal with them, why do you think the government hasn’t taken that approach?

[David McWilliams] I think that there’s something very deep going on in the government, which is that the establishment in Ireland, and when I say the establishment I mean the top civil servants, the bankers, the brokers who make money out of us going into debt, the legal firms who are being paid to give economic advice and as far as I’m concerned they don’t have many economists there. They all have a vested interest in preserving the status quo, and the status quo is that we will be good little people and not cause too much problems. We have to stand up for ourselves, that is absolutely true because it makes no sense in finance what we’re doing, there’s no precedent of a country doing what we are doing, so we’ve got to, there is no precedent in finance or economics, the question has to be deeper and we’ve got to ask questions of this small elite who are making decisions.

[presenter 2] Alright a response from the minister, then we’ll go back to the rest of you as well.

[Mary Hannifin] David McWilliams is accusing government plus senior officials in this country of treason, and, am there is no other way of saying it. He’s accusing people of being in cohoots with to try and protect a system. Government leaders in this country are facing up to a very serious economic situation and very serious banking situation and that’s why tough decisions have been made and have been taken, and that’s why top management have been taken out of banks.

[David McWilliams] Mary, there’s no, we’re not dealing with creditors, actually we’ve taken the easy decision not the tough decision, the tough decision is going into a room and say we don’t have the money and we are not minded to pay you, and we’ll do a deal, that’s tough! Rolling over and saying we’ll pay you think about it…

[Mary Hannifin] The government is bound to act within the law.

[David McWilliams] There is no law governing what we are doing.

[Mary Hannifin] The advice that we have is that we must treat the primary bond holders in the very same way as depositors. If that law never existed, you would never go to the person who had loaned you money and say to them I’m not paying you and by the way I’d actually like to borrow more.

[David McWilliams] Nobody loaned more, nobody loaned {inaudible} money, they loaned Sean FitzPatrick money.

[Mary Hannifin] Sorry David what you have said here today is a completely scandalous statement and an accusation against government. It’s against government, its against political leaders, it’s against business leaders and there has been major examples in the last few years particularly in banking, of greed, of recklessness, and of poor regulation…

[Roisin Shorthall] Fuelled by your government…


#18

Why ask us?
Ask your friend to back up his assertions, see how far that gets you.

What he’s got there is an opinion.
This opinion was given to him and taken unquestiongly.
These opinions then become his opinions, his thoughts.
Its called an inculcation.

If he cant provide evidence of his assertions, its inculcation.
If he gets upset, annoyed, offended or otherwise emotionally reacts, its inculcation.

Inculcation, incidentally, is where we get the word ‘cult’ from.


#19

Best summation of an Irish government that I’ve ever read. I take my hat off to you Sir.


#20

DMW …

Can somebody tell me if it’s too late, is there any way back? Have the bondholders been paid off already?


#21

Its not Ireland that would be doing a deal with the bond holders , it would be Fianna Fail . The bond market would demand a change of government as part of a deal on future lending . It would be the end of Fianna Fail .


#22

Then bring it on.

Change is not going to come from within Ireland.

So we need change imposed from without…


#23

Mc Williams did not accuse Hannifin of treason. She maintained that it would be treasonous if there were a cabal who put their own interests before that of the country.

This is probably the stupidest thing that Hannifin has said. These politicians are so stupid that they don’t realise that their pronouncments can come back to haunt them.

I personally believe that there are various people in power who are in cahoots to protect themselves (the system) and that a day of reckoning will come.


#24

all we got from mcwilliams there was hot air he didn’t actually say anything


#25

[Back of Envelope Usage Alert]
I think we need something very radical to avoid this ever happening again and to help us clean up the mess. We need a new Dail for the Second Republic. We cannot attempt the celebrate the 1916 centenary without such change as it would be a farcce.

I would propose integrating the Seanad into the Dail and replacing its current setup with set of key expertise areas vital to our future (economics, technology, health, management, infrastructure etc.). These could change over time. There could be corresponding voting panels of experts/constituencies in the relevant areas (e.g. all economics graduates or all economics PhDs for the first etc.). There could be 5 seats in each panel with 10 year maximum service with the possibility of extension based on a 2/3 Dail majority. There might be 40-50 such seats with the remainder up to a sensible size e.g. 150, voted in by the people (these should always be a significant majority).

This would hopefully reduce costs of the Oireachtas, raise the level of Dail debate and ensure availability of adequate expertise to the cabinet.

It might need some safeguards to ensure that those elected to the panels would not just be mouth-pieces for VIs.

Any thoughts?


#26

I suspect some of the bond holders know “where the bodies lie”. If we started bankrupting some developers/business men and convicting some politicians/bankers, then they might be willing to deal but not until then…


#27

Approx 50% of voters voted for FF. So in some respects half the country is only getting what they voted for. They voted for the “nod and wink”,for the people had money in safes that they didnt know anything about or how it got there.

Its the haughey culture that still runs deep and wide through FF. The civil service have no independence because we get the " open your mouth and you will get posted to ballygobackwards" for the rest of your career.

Half the nation voted for this mess.

The only way out of it after voting out FF is to privatise and regulate hard whole swards of the domestic economy that is run by the government. China probably has less government influence than we do - NAMA, Anglo, EBS, DAA,RTE, ESB, CIE, Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann, Aer Lingus, Bord Gais, Coillte, OPW, Bord na Mona, VHI, gaeltacht boards, enterprise boards, Bord Bia, DDA etc etc.

All of above means a small number of vested interests run the whole show. We need to reduce the power of govt quangos. Add in the haughey culture that no opposition in any of the above will be accepted and you end up where we have.


#28

David McWilliams, 25th May 2008.

Who do you believe? McWilliams who has been consistently right, or Hanafin who has been consistently wrong?


#29

well the next step is FF selling off state assets for a song to their friends. Id say one marc coleman idol must already have a few ministers bought off


#30

He called out the government on their stance that depositors and bond holders need to be treated in the same manner. That single act made his presence on the panel worthwhile. I’d like to see the government come out and outline why this is the case. I’d also like to see other people in the media ask for clarification on this issue.

Personally, I think that McWilliams is taking a very brave stance on these issues. He is doing himself no favours with some of the insinuations that he is making but he makes them anyway. I may not agree with some of his suggested solutions but that doesn’t stop me from admiring his continued efforts to call the bullshit that the government is churning out.


#31

She said it was scandalous, and I suppose it is, but she never said that it was untrue.

In fact, with all the people alleging corruption and treason on the part of FF, isn’t it strange that they never respond or never take libel actions.

Suggesting of course that while it is indeed a shocking and scandalous accusation to make, it is probably true as well.