Multiple Fatalities from Dublin Halting Site Fire


#173

The same Una Mullaly who supported the squatters up in Grangegorman…she’s got her finger on the pulse alright


#174

It’s worth looking at the AIRO Census mapping to see just how many Travellers live in each Local Authority area. I reckon about 700 in South Dublin, 700 in Fingal, and about 150 in Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown.

airo.maynoothuniversity.ie/exter … e-rathdown

The idea that the survivors of this tragedy should be run out of their area is absolutely sickening.


#175

For the record from AIRO I get 403 people identifying as “white irish traveller” in DLR in 2011. 1357 in Fingal. 1923 in Dublin City. 2216 in South Dublin.


#176

DLR is half the size of South Dublin, and a quarter the size of Fingal. The population density is a third higher than South Dublin and nearly three times that of Fingal. The number of Travellers sounds about proportionate. Agree that running them out of town would be sickening, of course.


#177

That’s why every town in Northern Ireland has a fabulous leisure centre.

I guess that worked eventually…ish


#178

According to this recent and very comprehensive report, there is (initially) no shortage of Traveller Accommodation…in fact, there is a surplus in many areas. The problem is, too many Travellers keep leaving them - feuding, intimidation and bullying being the main reasons cited. The sites then become vandalised, burnt down etc., causing new shortages. It’s a nightmare for Local Authorities:

environ.ie/en/Publications/D … 993,en.pdf
*
The Travellers consulted identified a range of reasons for Travellers leaving Traveller
specific accommodation including:
On-going tensions, conflict, intimidation and/or feuding within and between Traveller
families in particular areas linked to
i) The incompatibility of some Traveller families in some areas who would not, if
given the choice, chose to live close to one another, but who are housed (often
despite their protests) together by the local authority.
ii) Families not registered with the local authority parking adjacent to legitimate
sites and using the water and electricity supplies of legally resident families,
creating imbalances on sites which can lead to feuding.
iii) The dominance/bullying behaviour of a particular Traveller family/family group
on a site.
iv) The lack of a network of transient sites in the country that would enable Traveller
families ‘to take to the road over the summer months’ as many would have done
traditionally. *


#179

This family is already in temporary accomodation since the tragedy, as far as I know. Why uproot them again ?


#180

That wouldn’t actually be legal at all. So they would lose their cars to the council compound until they paid for their retrieval.


#181

:smiley: :smiley:
It’s fascinating how people become outraged if some group breaks the law, but will then promote illegal behaviour by a group they support.


#182

Read it again. I was merely suggesting what is open to the residents and what the council should be thinking when considering how to proceed…the residents are already being forced to park illegally because of the nature of this narrow road, in order to allow the flow of traffic through. They’re being forced to break the law in favour of car traffic. By parking up on the kerb, anyone walking withe a buggy or in a wheelchair would be obstructed and forced to go out on the road. This is against Council policy which promotes safe walking etc. What’s the solution to this dangerous problem? Perhaps a landscaped car-park on the green area at the end of the road, open to residents with permit only? The council now need to carry out a traffic survey and safety audit - now that the road is likely to become much busier with “different” kinds of vehicles using it. Perhaps ramps need to be installed to reduce speeds - in fact this is the kind of road where there usually are speed ramps. These new residents are going to have a lot of visitors, aren’t they? They usually stay over for a while - they need to be able to get their camper vans and caravans through and have somewhere to park them as well…

Bottom line - this has to be the most unsuitable site the Council could have picked…


#183

You were suggesting illegally parking as a strategy for obstruction, and claiming it to be legal. Sounds like bad advice to me.


#184

Haven’t really been following this lately, but can anyone tell me if any politician (or similar etc) who has criticised the residents actually invited the travellers into their own constituency ?


#185

The only Politicians having a go at the Residents are those from outside the Constituency… Aodhan compared the situation to Alabama for example.
The local Politicians seem to be threading water…but the FG candidate in the upcomign election has bene getting abuse over a leaflet she issued last year on placing a halting site on council land as being a waste of money
independent.ie/irish-news/fg … 20453.html


#186

In the 2 weeks since the tragedy, could the council not have fixed up their existing ‘temporary’ site and not wasted all there energy on what at face values looks liek an unsuitable new location.


#187

I doubt they’ll ever use that site as a Hating Site again…can’t see any Traveller wanting to live there


#188

Can’t believe anyone would compare this situation with Alabama. Shocking ignorance of history, no matter where you stand on this issue.


#189

An outstanding example of parapraxis.


#190

She really is some piece of work, but she knows where her votes are.

This is just an observation, but on the morning of the Carrickmines tragedy I was watching the reaction on Twitter and something really struck me. Up to that point in the morning of all the many expressions of sympathy it was only Fine Gael politicians who felt the need to explicitly state that their condolences were ‘sincere’. I have absolutely no doubt that they were sincere but it’s interesting none the less.


#191

They may have all attended the same media awareness talk. Sincerity is overrated anyway, as someone here once said the axe murderer chasing you down the street is sincere in their intent.


#192

Some of the policies proposed on this thread remind me of putting factories in rural areas and hoping the jobs would come. Or the Western Rail Corridor.

It assumes that all you need is supply and demand will follow, ignoring deeply-held cultural preferences (traveller and settled alike).

Take education. There has been a disproportionate spend on traveller education in Ireland for 40 years (that’s two generations). Buses pick them up from halting sites, pupil-teacher ratios are very low, meals are provided. It’s the kind of spend and level of attention that is not available even in fee-paying schools.

Traveller educational attainment has improved a lot, but levels of literacy and numeracy are still shockingly low. There are countries in Asia with 1/3 Ireland’s per capita income with better education outcomes than Irish travellers have.

I simply do not believe that this is down to attitudes of the settled population, or government inaction or an inability of traveller children to learn. Part of it is that living in a caravan with a lot of other people makes it difficult to do homework and study.

What it mainly comes down to is a reluctance on the part of many traveller parents to supporting their children in education. I don’t know why this is a thing, but it is. And no amount of hand-wringing by earnest liberals (of whom I count myself a member) is going to change this fact.