Multiple Fatalities from Dublin Halting Site Fire


#161

It’s not for me to do anything except to express my opinion, but yes, if I was the County Manager I would give the residents two things: 1) a legal guarantee that the halting site would be temporary for a fixed period of time (as promised), and 2)an order to remove their roadblock.


#162

@hiphop, I haven’t read your contribution but I suspect it was full of inaccuracies, exaggerations, misrepresentations and sundry forms of nonsense. If I get a chance I’ll read it later, but then again I mightn’t.


#163

Joining this thread late. But the way I see it is that they are going to have to be given some emergency accommodation untill their halting site is rebuild. If this is the nearest place Dun Laoghaire own to the halting site then that seems a reasonable option. Let’s face no mater where they will be accomadated there will be local opposition. Also the estate beside where they will be housed is a council estate. Seems pretty doubled standard that the residents will take a free house from the council and then object when the council is giving others free accommodation close to them.


#164

That’s a circular argument. Effectively, you’re saying the carrot is that if they stop objecting the stick will be removed. They’ve already decided that digging their heels in is the best option to prevent a situation they consider unacceptable. Their intransigence makes this someone else’s problem. Are you saying the pressure should be just ratcheted up until they cave?

This is different from the situation in the north, where both communities are looking for an amelioration with benefits to each – cessation of violence, power sharing, parity of esteem, etc. – a resolution on parades being one element of that.

Again, what is the carrot for Rockville Drive? Should they, for instance, be paid a large amount of money for accepting the halting site, like some travellers allegedly were in the past for moving on.


#165

I think you did read it, but haven’t the argument left in you.


#166

I would treat it the very same way as if they were objecting to Nigerians, Poles, Homosexuals or Christians.


#167

If the media reports are to be believed, the carrot sought by the residents is a legally binding commitment from Dun Laoghaire Rathdown on the six month timeframe for the temporary halting site. Which shouldn’t be too problematic.


#168

And what if they’re objecting to a halting site, regardless of the people in it? Like I said, it could be disruptive even if it was Michael D. Higgins next door.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6igSsYfArWA/Up_XGIyqe5I/AAAAAAAABfM/syS37ZzLfP4/s1600/Xmas+combat-garden-gnomes-291x250.jpg https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Wskep1U3ltA/Up_XuvC95UI/AAAAAAAABfU/9PsX2KzeCv8/s1600/Xmas+zombie-gnomes1-300x250.jpg


#169

I doubt it.


#170

Complete Nonsense. Again I repeat Sinn Fein’s guidance on the matter of what communities should have to put up with and what their entitlements to expect are. With emphasis

sinnfein.org/releases/reviewofparades.html

The key point to the residents is that they are being “subjected to” this. Nigerians, Poles and Homosexuals would not “subject you” to anything by moving in next door. Travellers tend to. And according to the Rockfield Drive residents these Travellers in the nearby site tended to in the past.

Bundling this strong arming up in the language of equality is pretty shocking.


#171

The way to integrate communities is to limit the types of behaviour that drives wedges between them. In the North, Protestants and Catholics can integrate perfectly together if the points of conflict are resolved. The same is true between the Traveller and the settled community. There is no solution based on inequality and segregation.


#172

It’s been a week now since this dispute erupted, with still no signs of a resolution. The story has every chance of going global, if not sorted very soon.

The ordinary people who live on this quiet, very narrow road, have been described as “Nazis” and “Klu Klux Klan” on the national state broadcaster and accused of being “vile” and “lacking an ounce of humanity” by Pavee Point. A Government Minister, Aodhan O’Riordan, has today likened the situation to Alabama in the 1950s while Una Mullaly’s column in the Times today stated that, “Nimby-ism is the national sport of South Dublin.” (And there was me thinking it was “liberalism”)

The damage has been done and the residents have nothing to lose by holding out. Even if a court injunction pushes this Halting Site through, they could quite easily make life very difficult for the authorities, without breaking the law. (Do a Google street-view and “walk” up the road from the entrance - every single car is parked up on the kerb. All they have to do is park them “legally” on both sides and you probably won’t get any construction vehicles through.)

Pat Kenny was probably right today when he suggested that the Council can’t be seen to back down now and will try to save face. They’ll probably be forced to comply with such a long list of residents’ demands, including 24-hour security and even curfews, that this Halting Site will become the most policed in the country, probably frustrating the Travellers and cramping their “lifestyle” to a level not acceptable to them. Even then, the Council (and Traveller organisations) must be petrified that - in time - the residents’ fears will prove to be correct and that the whole saga will be another blow to their accommodation program.


#173

The same Una Mullaly who supported the squatters up in Grangegorman…she’s got her finger on the pulse alright


#174

It’s worth looking at the AIRO Census mapping to see just how many Travellers live in each Local Authority area. I reckon about 700 in South Dublin, 700 in Fingal, and about 150 in Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown.

airo.maynoothuniversity.ie/exter … e-rathdown

The idea that the survivors of this tragedy should be run out of their area is absolutely sickening.


#175

For the record from AIRO I get 403 people identifying as “white irish traveller” in DLR in 2011. 1357 in Fingal. 1923 in Dublin City. 2216 in South Dublin.


#176

DLR is half the size of South Dublin, and a quarter the size of Fingal. The population density is a third higher than South Dublin and nearly three times that of Fingal. The number of Travellers sounds about proportionate. Agree that running them out of town would be sickening, of course.


#177

That’s why every town in Northern Ireland has a fabulous leisure centre.

I guess that worked eventually…ish


#178

According to this recent and very comprehensive report, there is (initially) no shortage of Traveller Accommodation…in fact, there is a surplus in many areas. The problem is, too many Travellers keep leaving them - feuding, intimidation and bullying being the main reasons cited. The sites then become vandalised, burnt down etc., causing new shortages. It’s a nightmare for Local Authorities:

environ.ie/en/Publications/D … 993,en.pdf
*
The Travellers consulted identified a range of reasons for Travellers leaving Traveller
specific accommodation including:
On-going tensions, conflict, intimidation and/or feuding within and between Traveller
families in particular areas linked to
i) The incompatibility of some Traveller families in some areas who would not, if
given the choice, chose to live close to one another, but who are housed (often
despite their protests) together by the local authority.
ii) Families not registered with the local authority parking adjacent to legitimate
sites and using the water and electricity supplies of legally resident families,
creating imbalances on sites which can lead to feuding.
iii) The dominance/bullying behaviour of a particular Traveller family/family group
on a site.
iv) The lack of a network of transient sites in the country that would enable Traveller
families ‘to take to the road over the summer months’ as many would have done
traditionally. *


#179

This family is already in temporary accomodation since the tragedy, as far as I know. Why uproot them again ?


#180

That wouldn’t actually be legal at all. So they would lose their cars to the council compound until they paid for their retrieval.