NCC calls for an end to Stamp Duty

[Pill]

Wednesday, June 25 14:14:55

(BizWorld)

The National competitiveness Council has called for an end to Stamp Duties, the introduction of property taxes in its place and slashing property investment incentives.

Stamp Duty only serves to increase the costs of buying and selling property and reduces liquidity in the housing market and should be replaced with a yearly property tax, the NCC has recommended to the Government’s Commission on Taxation.
It also recommended that the Government should continue to shift tax incentives away from investments in property. “Strong tax incentives for property have the effect of reducing the incentives for investment in productive assets (e.g. firms) which would stimulate the exporting capacity of the economy and other financial assets (e.g. pensions, shares, etc.),” the submission said.

The NCC also warned that Ireland needs to proceed carefully on the introduction of a carbon tax as the costs of doing business in Ireland have already increased rapidly in recent years.

It added that changes are needed in Ireland’s tax regime to meet the needs of the current economic environment and contribute to long term competitiveness.

“Ireland’s economic success in the last number of years is due, in no small part, to the taxation policies of successive governments. In the current economic climate, the NCC believes that tax policy can continue to play an important role in supporting economic growth and enhancing Ireland’s long term competitiveness,” said Dr Don Thornhill, chairperson, NCC.

businessworld.ie/livenews.htm?a=2209218;s=rollingnews.htm

[xman]

"The National competitiveness Council has called for an end to Stamp Duties, the introduction of property taxes in its place and slashing property investment incentives. "

Stop talking sense now.

This idea is far too sensible to ever happen unfortunately.

[Calina]

And property taxes serve only to increase the cost of owning property.

I’m of the opinion that primary residences should not be subject to a property tax. Flat rate stamp duty and it becomes a lot better.

[verbatim]

• No stamp duty
• Annual property tax
• no tax incentives for property investment

I’ll go with that.

[MrSteve]

• No stamp duty
• Annual property tax
• no tax incentives for property investment

I’ll go with that.

What about the people who live in large houses but don’t have a lot of money?

I don’t believe you should be taxed, on a yearly basis, just because you own something.

It doesn’t make any sense.

[plaudit]

Of course with this recent clamour to reduce stamp duty nobody is going to purchase in case they miss out on the next round of stamp duty cuts.

[mr_anderson]

Stamp was introduced as a way of cooling the property market.
Now its practicially frozen, so its time for it to be abolished.

But wait, the government introduced a temporary tax, but then gradually became addicted to the revenues even to the point of relying on them.
So now it cant afford to. Brilliant !

[verbatim]

• No stamp duty
• Annual property tax
• no tax incentives for property investment

I’ll go with that.

What about the people who live in large houses but don’t have a lot of money?

I don’t believe you should be taxed, on a yearly basis, just because you own something.

It doesn’t make any sense.

To me it does make sense. If you want to take up a greater area of the country then you should pay more.

[the_capitalist]

It also recommended that the Government should continue to shift tax incentives away from investments in property. “Strong tax incentives for property have the effect of reducing the incentives for investment in productive assets (e.g. firms) which would stimulate the exporting capacity of the economy and other financial assets (e.g. pensions, shares, etc.),” the submission said.

3 years ago would have been the time for that. All the while the government was spouting about developing Ireland into a “Knowledge Economy” our young people were going into the building trade, as was investment, tax incentives, focus, etc. Now all of a sudden we will be interested in JOBS or any kind to get unemployment down.

You wont attract quick FDI (or indiginious investment) to Ireland to create these new jobs by changing the tax rules. Its takes years of dedicated courting and marketing Ireland in the right way to these companies.

[jost]

What about the people who live in large houses but don’t have a lot of money?

I’d agree with that line. Plenty of cash-poor elderly people, who bought decades before the boom, would be severely punished by such a tax. It could be argued that this might encourage them to downsize and allow young families to buy the house, but I’m not sure people should be coerced into selling their family home simply because they didn’t cash-in during the boom. As Calina said, taxing primary residences is not a great idea. A tax on investment properties is a completely different matter.

[xman]

• No stamp duty
• Annual property tax
• no tax incentives for property investment

I’ll go with that.

What about the people who live in large houses but don’t have a lot of money?

I don’t believe you should be taxed, on a yearly basis, just because you own something.

It doesn’t make any sense.

Income test. Earn less than some figure (30k?) and you are exempted from paying property tax in that year.

Over the age of 65 that income figure rises, as you are no longer expected to work and pay tax. So if you have a nice house and a decent pension you shouldn’t be punished. However if you are filthy fucking rich with 20 fully owned IPs earning rent you keep paying.

So if you are elderly and asset rich/cash poor you have nothing to worry about.

[Pill]

• No stamp duty
• Annual property tax
• no tax incentives for property investment

I’ll go with that.

What about the people who live in large houses but don’t have a lot of money?

I don’t believe you should be taxed, on a yearly basis, just because you own something.

It doesn’t make any sense.

Income test. Earn less than some figure (30k?) and you are exempted from paying property tax in that year.

Over the age of 65 that income figure rises, as you are no longer expected to work and pay tax. So if you have a nice house and a decent pension you shouldn’t be punished. However if you are filthy fucking rich with 20 fully owned IPs earning rent you keep paying.

So if you are elderly and asset rich/cash poor you have nothing to worry about.

As it used to be:

revenue.ie/pdf/sr04eng_rpt.pdf

[the_capitalist]

• No stamp duty
• Annual property tax
• no tax incentives for property investment

I’ll go with that.

What about the people who live in large houses but don’t have a lot of money?

I don’t believe you should be taxed, on a yearly basis, just because you own something.

It doesn’t make any sense.

Income test. Earn less than some figure (30k?) and you are exempted from paying property tax in that year.

Over the age of 65 that income figure rises, as you are no longer expected to work and pay tax. So if you have a nice house and a decent pension you shouldn’t be punished. However if you are filthy fucking rich with 20 fully owned IPs earning rent you keep paying.

So if you are elderly and asset rich/cash poor you have nothing to worry about.

I already paid a huge tax on my house, i.e. the stamp duty. And that tax was directly related to the value of the houses people bought, and therefore evenly distributed amongst the classes…not paying anything else thank you.

[ragingbear]

I already paid a huge tax on my house, i.e. the stamp duty. And that tax was directly related to the value of the houses people bought, and therefore evenly distributed amongst the classes…not paying anything else thank you.

And i already paid a huge tax when i earned this money, so i’m not paying anything else (i.e VAT) when i spend it, thank you.

Yearly property tax makes a lot more sense than stamp duty.

[Calina]

• No stamp duty
• Annual property tax
• no tax incentives for property investment

I’ll go with that.

What about the people who live in large houses but don’t have a lot of money?

I don’t believe you should be taxed, on a yearly basis, just because you own something.

It doesn’t make any sense.

To me it does make sense. If you want to take up a greater area of the country then you should pay more.

This is completely illogical. Property values in this country bear little relation to actual footprint. It’s entirely possible to own a mansion in Limerick and be subject to less tax than someone in a one bedroomed little box in Dublin.

I’m reiterating: primary residences should not be subject to an annual tax. Fling a wealth tax on investment/holiday/second properties by all means but leave the family home alone. After all, a bloody huge number of them were already subject to huge stamp duties. They are not income generating unless cashed in so if you want to mess with capital gains tax and shove it up, fine. Past experience both here and in India suggests that this has a counterintuitive impact - ie the black economy expands and tax take contracts. Waste of time in my opinion.

[the_capitalist]

I already paid a huge tax on my house, i.e. the stamp duty. And that tax was directly related to the value of the houses people bought, and therefore evenly distributed amongst the classes…not paying anything else thank you.

And i already paid a huge tax when i earned this money, so i’m not paying anything else (i.e VAT) when i spend it, thank you.

Yearly property tax makes a lot more sense than stamp duty.

Yes it does but will you exempt everyone from this tax who has already paid stamp duty??

[Max_Power]

National Competitive Council…is that actually a real organisation? Where have they been the last ten years while we were all getting ripped off?

[Calina]

I already paid a huge tax on my house, i.e. the stamp duty. And that tax was directly related to the value of the houses people bought, and therefore evenly distributed amongst the classes…not paying anything else thank you.

And i already paid a huge tax when i earned this money, so i’m not paying anything else (i.e VAT) when i spend it, thank you.

Yearly property tax makes a lot more sense than stamp duty.

Yes it does but will you exempt everyone from this tax who has already paid stamp duty??

and those already stuck with rising management fees will probably go ballistic as well.

[Renting_And_Proud]

This is completely illogical. Property values in this country bear little relation to actual footprint. It’s entirely possible to own a mansion in Limerick and be subject to less tax than someone in a one bedroomed little box in Dublin.

I’m reiterating: primary residences should not be subject to an annual tax. Fling a wealth tax on investment/holiday/second properties by all means but leave the family home alone. After all, a bloody huge number of them were already subject to huge stamp duties. They are not income generating unless cashed in so if you want to mess with capital gains tax and shove it up, fine. Past experience both here and in India suggests that this has a counterintuitive impact - ie the black economy expands and tax take contracts. Waste of time in my opinion.

I agree with this. Tax the fuck out of investment properties tho

[xman]

I already paid a huge tax on my house, i.e. the stamp duty. And that tax was directly related to the value of the houses people bought, and therefore evenly distributed amongst the classes…not paying anything else thank you.

And i already paid a huge tax when i earned this money, so i’m not paying anything else (i.e VAT) when i spend it, thank you.

Yearly property tax makes a lot more sense than stamp duty.

Yes it does but will you exempt everyone from this tax who has already paid stamp duty??

I might consider giving you an exemption that allows stamp duty already paid (PPR only) to be offset against property tax. Maybe 100% offset, maybe not.

Then once you’ve used up your credit, you start paying annually like everyone else.

How does that sound?