Neary and Hurley to be grilled


#33

markf909

I saw your post yesterday

I don’t think anyone expected Mr Neary to appear - gone off to the hills to count his pension money

I am interested in reading the ‘stories’ as per the FR & CB

BS - YNWA


#34

For both BOI and AIB, €2bn preference shares and underwriting €1bn rights issue for ordinary shares.
Rights issues are normally at a discount to current market price of shares.
If rights issue for €1bn done at current market prices, we, the taxpayer will own 60%-80% of AIB and BOI.
If we took the sensible course that UK govt took with RBS and put in the €2bn preference shares as ordinary shares we would own approx 90% of the banks.

Why is Hurley shilling the bank shares in the oireachtas committee meetings, he says the market undervalues the share prices of the banks.

FF and their messenger boy Hurley will overpay for their preference/ordinary shares in the banks to the benefit of the bank shareholders and detriment to the taxpayer.

The national interest is that the clearing banks function and lend to businesses.
Also in the national interest taxpayers should only pay market prices for their investments.

FF’s interests is not wiping out shareholders and facing a disgruntled electorate

Memo to Hurley : The Market is not Wrong


#35

Hurley seems to have slipped under the radar. How come he has’nt resigned? He is better paid than Bernanke, Darling, Trichet yet presided over the biggest property/credit bubble in history and failed to use his powers to control it. He has relatively very little responsibility compared to Bernanke and co yet he blew it. He belatedly rose the capital reserve requirements and stress test requirments AFTER the market has started to collapse! What a great little country we live in. 8- XX


#36

Because Brian Lenihan just extended his contract?

fxstreet.com/news/forex-news … 584e0dcf8a


#37

The transcript of the Committee’s discussion with Jim Farrell, Dermot Quigley and Mary O’Dea from IFSRA is available here:debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=FIJ20090121.xml&Node=H2&Page=2

Tom Sheahan T.D. raised an intriguing question:

Jim Farrell denied all knowledge - does anyone know who the Oireachtas officer might be?

Neary didn’t turn up of course - Jim Farrell explained this at first by saying

Under further questioning from angry Committee members, we got this insight:

Translation: Farrell asked Neary to come along and Neary told him to drop dead; Mary will have to carry the can now that she is taking his job.

For a tame watchdog, IFSRA is not short of staff or money:

The financial institutions paid half of the total - were they also calling the tune?

A key issue on Anglo, bigger than Seanie’s loans, are the CFDs which Quinn converted into a major stake last year. IFSRA was completed blind-sided by this manoeuvre and now they are busy bolting the barn door by looking for legislation. But wasn’t there legislation on CFDs just over a year ago or was that just to stop Paddy Power trading in them?

The best line is from Dermot Quigley, when asked why IFRSA had called Seanie’s loans merely “inappropriate”.

:mrgreen:


#38


#39

Yes. The regulator would have regular meetings with IBEC and Irish bankers federation and they would tell the regulator what they werent to do if Ireland was to remain a place that encouraged investment based on its “highly competitive principles based regulatory environoment” :unamused:


#40

Lefournier wrote above

" key issue on Anglo, bigger than Seanie’s loans, are the CFDs which Quinn converted into a major stake last year. IFSRA was completed blind-sided by this manoeuvre and now they are busy bolting the barn door by looking for legislation. But wasn’t there legislation on CFDs just over a year ago or was that just to stop Paddy Power trading in them? "

Linked to this issue is the Quinn family holding of 15% in Anglo

The FR has to approve any acquisition in a bank which exceed 10% - an Acquiring Transaction?

Can anyone confirm if they know if the FR gave it’s approval for this transaction?

Also, how come there was no disclosure to the Stock Exchange?

The plot thickens!!!

Bill Shankly - YNWA


#41

I am also have some crazy questions. I hope I am just nuts.

Sean Quinn bought CFD contracts worth 1Bn+.

According to archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/200 … y34521.asp this stake was built up starting
in early 2007.

In my opinion people at Anglo knew the game was up already by 2007. Property was already heading south.

There were counterparties to these CFD deals.

The counterparties were people who already owned anglo stock, or possibly short sellers.

Which broker did Quinn use?

How did Quinn fund these CFD transactions and margin calls? Did he use … loans from Anglo?

Who took the other side of these trades? hedge funds?

Or did Anglo directors exit their significant stockholding by taking the other side of Quinn’s trades?

In other words, Was Sean Quinn the sucker at the poker table?


#42

It’s possible, but he may have been betting against himself. I don’t know if this is possible, but supposing a situation where someone wants to build a stake using CFDs. The brokerage he is dealing with has to buy a proportion of the shares to cover the CFD. As the stake grows and the free float diminishes, wouldn’t that push up the price of the shares as the brokerage owns more and more shares on his behalf? Or at least provide support to it?


#43

Mary O’Dea told the Committee that the FR has no role in relation to CFDs. That was why she was looking for new legislation. It’s a good question whether the Stock Exchange was informed. If not, all sorts of stock manipulation would seem to be possible.


#44

But Bill’s question still stands, under stock exchange rules, when Mr. Quinn converted his CFDs to shares, he owned 15% of the company. That should have required approval from the regulator. Was this given and why? Shame our elite elected representatives allowed themselves to be side-tracked by the CFD issue…


#45

Mary O’Dea, acting CEO of the Regulator, in her statement to the Oireachtas Committee indicated that (a) the Regulator had no power in relation to CFDs and (b) that CFDs could be converted into shares without approval by the Regulator. She doesn’t spell it out but that is the sense of her statement. She said they would look for new legislation to deal with this but I wonder why they didn’t ask for this in the past.


#46

Ah, thank you, I missed this bit. It’s a shocking omission.


#47

YW - yes it is a shocking admission & agreed that the FR’s powers in relation to the conversion of CFD’s into shares are non-existant

But my point still remains, that, after converting the CFD’s into Anglo shares:-

(i) The FR must approve the acquisition of a holding of 10% or more in a bank (acquiring transaction) - in approving this transaction, the FR must be satisfied with the ‘fit and proper’ requirements for the person acquiring the shares, and

(ii) Holdings in excess of 3% and any subsequent transactions for a holder of 3% in a listed company must be notifed to Irish Stock Exchange and the London Stock Exchange (if the company isl isted on both exchanges)

I don’t recall seeing any regulatory announcements to either of the Stock Exchanges, relating to any of the holdings by members of the Quinn Group - does this mean that the individual holding by each member of the Quinn Group were less than 3%?

Has anybody got any further insight in relation to the above?/

BS - YNWA


#48


#49

You may be onto something here, Bill. If so, I have been taken in by Mary O’Dea’s reply to Joan Burton at the Committee meeting.

I’m sure Joan Burton would have taken this to mean that the FR were powerless because CFDs were outside their remit. If it emerges that the FR had to give approval once the CFDs were converted into shares, Joan Burton will fillet Mary O’Dea next time she appears before that Committee. :imp:


#50

No individual member of the Quinn family held more than 3% so no stock exchange statements or approval was required.


#51

If these regulations can be circumvented by an elementary ruse like splitting the shareholding amongst the kids, then there is no point in pretending that the markets are regulated.

(Ah sure, wasn’t Seanie Fitz. the smart hoor to shuffle those loans over to Nationwide - 8 years in a row :imp: )


#52

PC

Is this substantiated fact or your view?
If it is fact, then I agree regarding Stock Exchange disclosure - notwithstanding the cute-hoorism involved. Do you really the Quinn children do as they please? They do what Daddy tells them - have no doubt about that!

The secondary issue of the ‘Quinn Family’ 10% shareholding in Anglo must require the FR’s approval!!

I have a very odd feeling about this one - The FR may be in a bit of bother (again)

Time to have some direct questions posed to the FR

Truth will prevail & will come out (eventually)

BS - YNWA