new housing starts drop 17% … 0653.shtml

Just as well the coinstruction industry is a cartel, and these guys have the gall to talk to us about the free housing market?


All this kinda vindicates those who belived that supply would/could not be choked off in time (a lonely minority here), the momentum of construction was always going to prevent this.

Just five months… we have empty (if strip out casually empty and holiday homes), of 2+ years (conservatively) supply waiting for occupants. I would say current need (long term demand) is at 40-55k PA based on our population climbing at 107k PA. It was common knowlodge 12 months ago with the cso stats that we had way over shot the mark with supply, inside industry analysts would / should have know a long time before that. There was no cut in supply till the homes stopped selling thus the conspiracy theories fall by the way side, supply was as high as could of been till the penny droped at the turn of the year.

how many o the new completions are built from stucco & twigs? :wink:

I pass through Sandyford Industrial estate(future southside Ballymun) frequently. The latest development there, past Beacon south Quarter, heading for the Luas. Here the apartments are arriving on the back of a truck, fully fabricated, Lighting,doors,windows, the lot. They are then lifted into place by a crane. The size of these things amazes me, If they had wheels they would not be mobile homes, at best they would be a large Caravan :open_mouth: .
Have a read of this to see what crap is being pawned off by builders.

My god, I thought buying off the plans was bad enough, but buying without even seeing the plans? Those people must be crazy.

I Think these 2 posts say it all :wink: .

done&dusted wrote:

Yeah - one poster even says:

So he bought a property without seeing anything at all!? At least he and I agree on one thing:


Bedrooms with no windows! Bedrooms that cant fit a double bed!
This place is a new Ballymun! Yet its one of the most expensive developments in Dublin. This is bizarre stuff!
Ten years from now we’ll probably be having tribunals about who approved these kinds of squalid developments. Nobody wants to live in that kind of squalor.

Well DLRCC would be a good place to start, They approved this private development and yet the SqFt of some of these units is so small that the exact same CC would not approve these for their tennants because of minimum space requirements :open_mouth: .

818 sq feet is a square with 10 meters for one side.

No windows, can’t swing a cat in these apartments & no doubt the sound insulation will be the last of these people’s worries. How much were these large caravans in the first place? €120k?

WHat are these apartments like in comparison with The Grange?

I am not familiar with the Grange. Watch this video the first is a mobile home
the second is a caravan :wink:.

Actually the Ballymun flats were a lot better than this, check out and you’ll see that all the bedrooms had large windows (with spectacular views in some cases) and plenty of room for a double bed.

Ballymun was a good concept, it’s a pity that it was put into practise so badly that it permanently killed off the idea of high-density social housing in this country.

I’m sorry, but I find comments like this about apartments extremely disingenuous. The Ballymun tower blocks were a failure because of poor planning, no sense of ownership and gross incompetence by the council in managing the tower and tenants.

People seem to conveniently ignore the fact that we have slums and ghettos in the council housing estates in Tallaght, Moyross and Finglas.

Yeah, Ballymun was built into a bad area. It was built for families with no aspirations.
The whole Ballymun idea is why people buy expensive houses here, they want to buy good neighbours.
If you look in many areas of foregn cities, you will have all sorts living together, Judges, postmen, shopworkers etc etc.
Here in Ireland we have massive and increasing class barriers. A little bit of the old communism would go a long way here.
Capitalism without restraint is what caused the Property boom / inflation problem in Ireland. If we had a properly regulated market this would not have happened, at least not to such a scale. However, this is a place where public servants and politicians are gods above question, regardless of incompetence

We’ve never had unrestricted capitalism in this country, in fact most of the means of production are controlled by the state (ESB, CIE, County Councils, telecoms (prior to Eircom)). It is the state that regulates construction and design via the planning laws NOT free market capitalism. In fact when state monopolies are sidelined we are actually better off with on the whole better services (Ryanair, O2, Vodafone, Meteor, 3).

Ballymun was built on a greenfield site in the 1960’s. The construction design & techniques were imported from communist Poland. The government then trapped the unwanted people in Irish society in a concrete box with no services or employment opportunities and so kept them dependant on the state (the ultimate goal of socialism). Communism is a really bad idea, just ask the many Eastern European’s and Chinese who live and work here to find out which system they’d rather live under.
We’ve had a ‘properly’ regulated market since 1963 and it has facilitated corruption (see tribunals), bad design (think about it when sitting on the M50 car park) leading to land hoarding and speculation based on monopoly rights granted by the government. Without the state regulation in planning the price of property would not be determined by artificial scarcity created in a restricted market.

Very True

Yeah I agree with you. And thats why I think many of the new apartment blocks constructed in Irelands property boom will be failures too. The quality of Ballymun apartments was just as good, if not better than the €400,000 apartments constructed in the last couple of years. And nobody really wants to live in these new apartments. People only bought them to “get on the ladder” and it was the only thing they could afford.

Its wasteful, that theyre knocking down Ballymun blocks while building new apartment blocks all over Dublin. They should have just privatized Ballymun. Sell the flats off for €30,000 each. The “sense of ownership”, as you call it would then be present and the owners could go about improving the common areas with security, landscaping etc.

Hey Green Bear, if we hadnt had state owned telecoms, many people in Ireland would never have got a phone line. Private telecom companies would never run a wire to service isolated houses. In fact, even many good sized villages would have been cut off. Just like theyre cut off from broadband today.

Private companies exist to make a profit and some essential services just arent and never will be profitable.

Apart from instances like that where the free market cant function, I generally agree with you that free is good.

You’re confusing universal service with state telecoms.

Universal service would be to say “you can supply telecom services to Irish customers but you must offer it for the same price to everyone”

State telecom is “only we can supply telecom services”.

There is no reason why universal service requires state run companies. If you’re one of the poor feckers who can’t even get a phone line from Eircom (it’s still happening) you’ll understand.

Yeah, of course its still happening, they cant get a phone line because Eircom is owned by a very rapacious private equity group, who will do or say anything to avoid the expense of having to run a copper wire across a hillside to a farmhouse.

Youre much more likely to get universal service with a state owned telecom because its subject to political pressure, and putting in uneconomical lines wont get anyone fired for not hitting their quaterly profit targets.

But I agree with you that the private sector can deliver telecoms services cheaper to more people overall. We just need to force them to offer unprofitable services sometimes, like the above example, free emergency calls etc.