Nigel Farage:Euro Game is up. Who the hell do you think are?


#181

UKIP could get over 10% of the vote in the next general election and end up with zero seats in the parliament

the first past the post system is perfect for keeping power in the hands of the elite


#182

It’s also very good at stopping fringe parties from getting into parliament, but can split the vote sufficiently to deny the current majority party an overall majority. This will have the affect of forcing their hand to emulate some of the fringe policies or lose votes.


#183

telegraph.co.uk/news/politic … eader.html


#184

Farage seems to make many enemies within his own party, suggesting that the rumours about his excessive egoism are probably accurate. The mad old duffer - Godfrey Bloom(?) - gave an interview recently saying that Farage is now the main stumbling block for UKIP to grow its support base and expand its expertise.

There is this bizarre view of Farage as somehow ‘anti-establishment’ and ‘sticking it to the eurocrats’.
Objectively, he’s very much part of the establishment and the only reason he’s still in politics is thanks to European bureaucracy.

He shines brightest when he’s haranguing people who are too polite to respond in kind.


#185

I took her to mean taking action on mainstream newspapers and television. These are still by far the most significant channels of communication in our society, in terms of influence, reach, and other terms.

And I disagree that these channels are “more intelligent and democratic than they have ever been”. I see the influence of the following getting stronger and stronger:

a. Deeply entrenched routines and institutionalised values predominating all aspects of their operation
b. They are closely tied to the political establishment in one way or another
c. They need to survive in a market-lead economy (entailing that business and entertainment priorities usually dominate)
d. They must keep advertisers happy (who promote values of materialism and consumerism as well as a conservative respect for the status quo and establishment.)
e. They are under largely monopoly ownership.
f. News is looked on purely as a commodity that must be sold.

The influence of the above FILTERS what is and is not said, and what is said loudest and weakest etc.

The point I wanted to make is that Farage’s charisma, narrow nationalism, bigotry, and tendencies to stoking of base public fears, insecurities and ignorances etc, is prime newspaper and television fare, in their current incarnations.

The continued propagation of those things will inevitably yield consequences, eventually. There are millions of poorly educated people looking for “simple” or more accurately, simplistic answers to their discontents. They don’t want to deal with any complex considerations that require them to think or self-reflect. They want answers that sit well with their own sentiments and prejudices; Answers that make it easy to point outwards to other little known or understood groupings to apportion blame; Answers that seem to make instant sense, all tied up with appeals to nationalism / patriotism, willful perversion of facts etc…

We’ve seen it all before. We should not allow it happen again.


#186

Read more: dailymail.co.uk/news/article … z2xwk9Ebet


#187

The Ban!
The most successful recruitment ploy around. - free as well - and your opponents provide it for you!


#188

#189

In fairness, Miliband didn’t ‘demand that Farage be banned’, he simply said he’s not that interested in debating Farage; and why would he be, given that Farage still doesn’t have any seats in parliament?

theguardian.com/politics/2014/apr/03/nigel-farage-tv-election-debates-ed-miliband
Miliband wants to get at Cameron and (rightly or wrongly) doesn’t perceive UKIP as a threat to Labour seats.

The broadcasting regulator in the UK has declared UKIP to be a major party for the European elections based on poll support and number of MEPs (this answers my question above about why Farage is getting so much airtime). UKIP will look for a similar status for the general election next year, but without any seat in parliament it might be difficult to achieve.


#190

UKIP aren’t only taking votes away from the Tories, they are eroding the Labour core voter base as well, particularly in the long-neglected north of England. There could well be another hung parliament come the next general election in the UK in 2015 - in this circumstance it is a very realistic proposition that UKIP could indeed hold the balance of power.

This is ludicrously alarmist. UKIP are hell bent on breaking away from Europe, they’re hardly likely to invade it! (You do know his wife’s German incidentally?)
What’s alarmist about it? If you read about the rise of the right in the interwar years, there are quite a number of parallels. Today, the far right is on the rise right throughout Europe. I don’t imagine Farage at the head of an invading army, but I do see him as the head of an intolerant, scared, broke and increasingly biased electorate who find it easier to point the finger at ‘furriners’ for their troubles rather than look close to home. And Farage is the best of them in UKIP - the rest don’t bear thinking about in my view.


#191

UKIP are the far right!!!


#192

They are nationalistic, but not fascist.

I’d be far more concerned about Le Pen in France.


#193

Marine Le Pen has airbrushed the party in recent years to the extent that some immigrants, or at least the children of some immigrants, are now voting FN. She’s popular among young people and her social conservatism has won support from some religious voters. Her populism is anti-European, anti-globalization, anti-single currency; some of this has gained support in traditional working class areas.
Her main success is still at a European level - recent local elections gave the FN control of 11 mayoral offices, but that’s out of a total of over 36000 so not a sweeping success.


#194

“Far right” is European code for national socialism. In Britain, the British National Party (BNP) most closely meets this criteria, however, they’ve largely been silenced by the membership leak in 2008. UKIP are closer to neo-conservatives, they are more a reaction to cultural marxism that dominates western social democracies.


#195

To an extent, but UKIP’s core demographic skews old and white, which kind of targets the Tories. There are suggestions they’re eating into the Labour vote in the north, but I suspect that’s more of a protest vote because those voters have been largely abandoned and taken for granted for a long time as you say.

A hung parliament looks quite likely, but it’s unlikely UKIP would have the balance of power. FPTP means they’re going to find it very hard to accumulate any/some MPs to matter for reasons others have noted above. If there were a hung parliament, they’d (probably) be a long way back in the queue behind the Lib Dems and then the Celtic parties

Oh come on, the parallels are barely there. UKIP don’t have a paramilitary arm for a start, nor has Farage written a book after a failed putsch (as far as I know, I must admit I haven’t scoured Amazon). Also I don’t know if I’d call Farage “far right” … he’s certainly a populist, but that’s not limited to any particular point on the political scale. The BNP is what I’d consider far right, and fortunately they seem to have largely vanished after that passing drama a few years ago when whatshisname (can’t be bothered to look it up) appeared on Question Time

I agree with you completely there, they throw up nutters and loonies with great regularity. Let’s hope we at least get some entertainment value out of it


#196

I don’t know why people always call up the most unlikely insignificant parallels.

There is only one set of parallels that really matter. I think these were summarised very well at the beginning of Michael Burleigh’s acclaimed comprehensive history of Nazi Germany, The Third Reich (Winner of the Samuel Johnson prize for Non-Fiction in 2001)

THESE are the parallels that are concerning, with regard the phenomena growing up around UKIP.

books.google.ie/books?id=l5gcZpnL5QUC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false

**"… sections of the German elites and masses of ordinary people chose to abdicate their individual critical faculties in favor of a politics based on faith, hope, hatred and sentimental collective self-regard for their own race and nation…

… the progressive, and almost total, moral collapse of an advanced industrial society at the heart of Europe, many of whose citizens abandoned the burden of thinking for themselves, in favor of what George Orwell described as the tom-tom beat of a latter-day tribalism. They put their faith in evil men promising a great leap into a heroic future, with violent solutions to Germany’s local, and modern society’s general, problems…

… A dystopian ‘quick fix’ to Germany’s manifold problems …"**


#197

at worse farage is a little englander little more

the idea that he is a nazi or anything like it is a joke


#198

and why do we see the rise of UKIP?

How are Western governments doing?

  • Spin over substance
  • Arrogance, claiming credit for everything good that happens
  • Lack of transparency in decision making
  • Vested interests put ahead of the common good
  • Nepotism
  • No accountability
  • High Taxation on middle classes
  • Transfer of wealth to rich
  • Institutional corruption
  • Rewarding failure

#199

Hmm, I’m not so sure.
Taking a quick look at their website, ukip.org/issues, we have:

  1. National sovereignty (no to Europe)
  2. Border control
  3. Labour market protectionism/isolationism
  4. Social welfare protectionism/isolationism
  5. Health care protectionism/isolationism
  6. Legal protectionism/isolationism

UKIP might be nodding towards neoconservatism, but xenophobia is at the heart of it all.
Every ‘issue’ identified is framed in terms of << UK* good >> ; << foreigners bad >>, whether these foreigners be workers, welfare spongers, healthcare tourists, whatever.

*(UK being more tightly defined as England, especially southern England)


#200

Forget Nazis, and particularities of personalities and parties.

What is concerning is the parallel in social development; the tendency of increasing sections of the population to be attracted to the kind of solutions and framing of problems such as Farage represents…

Of course, overt totalitarian and autocraticism are not yet on the agenda. It is also certain that when and if these aspects do become much more prominent on the agenda, that the mechanisms utilised will not resemble nazism, but something completely different.

Again, forget nazism. That was a manifestation* of the time* in response to the social phenomena described in my post above. What matters are the parallels in social phenomena, in response to similar economic and other problems etc.

The significance of Farage and UKIP at present is that they are like a prism into these phenomena, and they are serving to foment and extol these phenomena. But better that these base parts of human and social nature had stayed deeply buried. However, now, here comes their rise again.