Nostra Culpa


#12

I’ll stick to “the paper of record” thank you very much.
:wink:


#13

Agus mise…I have nothing but contempt for the majority of FF, but it seems to me that the wrong Brian is getting the most of the bashing. Sure, ensuring the safety of all the bondholders’ investments in the blanket guarantee was a ghastly mistake, but how many of us knew it at the time? How many of us even knew what a bondholder was? I certainly didn’t. And wasn’t he in receipt of advice from the best financial brains in the country (not that that says much I know… :unamused: ). The rot set in when Brian Cowan was first mate and Bertie steering the ship. And probably even earlier when Charlie I’ll spend it when I have it” Mc Creevy” was in charge of our finances. Funnily enough don’t hear much from him nowadays, certainly don’t hear of him coming in for the drubbing he richly deserves (see irishtimes.com/focus/budget2 … rofile.htm)


#14

Good job you weren’t the Minister for Finance at the time, but he was.


#15

every word out of brian lenihans mouth in his tenure as a highly paid finance minister was completely wrong.

he’s either a complete moron or a consummate liar.

he should not have been re-elected after making such a balls of it.


#16

I couldn’t agree more!


#17

Presume that snide personal remark was referring to

“And wasn’t he in receipt of advice from the best financial brains in the country (not that that says much I know… :unamused: )”

in which case that begs the question as to whether you are amongst those fine financial brains?

I freely admit to not having a deep understanding of matters economic and financial. That’s why I read the pin :laughing:


#18

Yes, but look at M Lowry. And B Cowan would surely have been elected having played HIS role ruining the economy and making a right eejit of himself and the country in a matter of a few years…if the interviews with is devoted followers in Tullamore are anything to go by.

Parish pump and all that still prevails :-GC


#19

You completely misunderstood what I was saying, it wasn’t a dig at you. Your post read that Brian should be forgiven for not knowing he was making the worst decision in the history off the state, who knew at the time that it was such a bad decision, you certainly didn’t. My point is that you didn’t need to know as you weren’t the minister for finance, he was and should have known.

I would argue they knew full well what they were doing and did it anyway, they all did just fine out of it thank you very much.


#20

Well, you might want to be careful with the “us” around here. Look for xman and sidewinder’s posts immediately following the guarantee. (And indeed others). Remember, we had no inside knowledge, no access to the guarantee idea beforehand.


#21

The old cut and paste quotations eh? Reminds me of the (i think) ‘Rat Pack’ musical staged in the West End a few years ago where the reviews said something like

Which the show promoters turned in to something along the lines of…

And were duly censured for misrepresentation or something like that


#22

Well, it may be that Mr. Browne was relying on secondary sources for the content. While it would be great for everyone to have the time to check secondary sources, sometimes you just go with them…


#23

Ah yes, Yoga, Mea culpa. That was a rather cavalier all-embracing usage of the word ‘us’. Actually by ‘us’ I meant the uninitiated (like myself)…the bamboozled masses who at the time had no clue as to dire implications of the blanket guarantee. I’m new to this site and barely have time to keep abreast of current posts (sooooo much more than just property :slight_smile:, but will try to look at those post-guarantee posts.


#24

“Good job you weren’t the Minister for Finance at the time”…looks like dig, sounds like a dig, speaks like a dig…However, I’ll accept that I misunderstood what you were saying.

I must also point out that in no way did I state (nor wish to imply) that Brian L should “be forgiven”. My point was that (leaving aside the developers, the banks, the regulator, the central bank, the ECB, the Germans etc.) by the time Brian L was given the chalice it was well and truly poisoned and that the carnage of Sept 08 was a result of the rash and irresponsible policies of Charlie, Bertie and Brian Cowen over the previous 15 years or so. And yet, unless I’m missing something, they have been subject to far less insult and invective and shit-slinging in recent times than BL. That’s all. I am most certainly NOT an apologist 8)


#25

This is the main one:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13896

It’s quite long ( :slight_smile: ), but it’s interesting to watch the mood change as the details came out and the realisation of what had been guaranteed and the credibility of that guarantee sank in.

Also of interest:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13926&p=134976
(Snap poll on the day).

The Lehman Brothers thread:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=10455
(for some background on the mood at the time).


#26

Thanks for those links Yoga, will read them over lunch :slight_smile:


#27

This one’s a doozey!:
Bear Stearns hedge fund & CDOs
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=2227

That’s the “I say Chaps! Look there… Ehhhh… Could it… Hmmmm… WTF… OMG… Sweet Jesus… Wow! Just Wow… Who’s next… Lehmans??? And now… US!!!” thread.

Brilliantly captures the whole GFC thing - my favourite thread.


#28

I’m pretty sure Honohan said “the most expensive in history” - and on camera as well.

Will see if I can find it.


#29

Actually the Bear Stearns and the Lehmans Thread together are perfect.

The Bear Stearns Thread goes mainly up to mid-June 2008 and the Lehmans thread starts off from the start of June 2008 to October 2008.


#30

You didn’t need to be the financial brain of the century to see this complete fiscal disaster coming from a looong way off. Any idiot could see that a country of 4 million people (about a third of the population of London, mind) could not POSSIBLY support the amount of building work that was going on in this country, and how on earth could that colleague on the same money as you afford that brand new 4 wheel drive, send the kids to private school AND buy an apartment in Bulgaria? Seriously, you would have had to have been brain-dead not to spot that there might be trouble ahead. So how come we, as a nation, are supposedly all so shocked and surprised that we are now a financial basket-case, scrabbling around for someone to blame?

It seems to me that the vast majority of people in this country CHOSE not to see what was coming. I’m sure most posters on here remember the reaction that you had from neighbours/friends/relatives if you as much as SUGGESTED that there might be trouble in our property paradise a couple of years ago…the reaction was of the “La la la, I’m not listening” with fingers firmly planted in the ears variety. The kind of reaction, in fact, of people who don’t want to hear the terrible news that, deep in their hearts, they knew to be true. I guess the greed drowned out the rationality.

Rant over.


#31

Great rant, Polly. Brave of you to suggest that individuals in the current financial mire might have some modicum of responsibility for their plight. Without exonerating the developers and their cronies in FF, the banks, the regulator etc etc…
I have a friend who bought a shoebox in stoneybatter for over 300 K, and when I suggested that she might er….rent until the prices returned to the realm of the sustainable, I was smartly told that that’s the way it is in Ireland now prices would only go up and up an up ……

In a puff of smoke as it turned out.