Oh, Canada...

Well, I am in York region north of the city. To be honest it’s not very inflated around here. Most of the homes sell for about 14 - 15 times annual rent still. There is a shortage of houses to some degree in some areas like mine and the ones you mention. The greenbelt, and the Oakridge moraine where I live, constrain where they can build.

Families who live in the burbs, live there coz they don’t want to pay millions for their homes, so that also limits the prices they can charge. I don;t see a bubble in the burbs to be honest. $330,000 buys you a decent 3-4 bedroom 2100 - 2300 sq feet home. Well within the affordable range. Taxes are probably another $3000 - $3500 a year on a home like that in the burbs.

Though the prices did drop at the beginning of 2009 by about 10% during the worst of the credit crunch. Now though, the bubble is evident in selling times. They were literally days/hours in some cases.

But outside of Toronto, there are no bidding wars, or multiple bidders. If someone bids on a house, everyone else steps away. So you get fast sales, but never over asking price.

In Toronto, it is a different story, houses selling for 30x annual rent is not unheard off, total bubble country. Also, areas in Durham like Oakville are also way to expensive (white enclave).

The downside of where I live is the prices never go way high, but then they never drop way back either. I like it that way. Toronto and Vancouver can have their bubbles. For me, saving 30 mins on a drive into town is not worth 2-3x the price.

Basically, I have a 4 bedroom 4800 sq ft/445 sq. m home (inc basement), is worth about $540,000 (400k euro). It is only 4 years old, and suits my family of 3 kids, and 3 dogs very well. It’s as big as I would want to get, probably get a bit smaller next time and get more land.

But in Toronto, I could never afford a house like that, probably millions.

The reason for the Toronto bubble and not the burbs, is that Torontonians think you need a passport if you live further than 10 miles outside the city center (I’m not kidding). So most people from Toronto would never move outside. They would rather pay stupid prices for houses that are shit then live in a decent home with a normal mortgage.

I’m happy where I live, the price I paid etc. Talk of bubbles does not really worry me, but if I was in Vancouver, or downtown. Well I’d be worried

Bank of Canada raises rates: Economists’ reaction → business.financialpost.com/2010/ … -reaction/

https://www.chpc.biz/images/APR10-6City.jpg

Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal & Ottawa at Peak Prices → chpc.biz/

Is Canada’s housing bubble about to burst? → thecoast.ca/RealityBites/arc … t-to-burst

Home sales tumble → financialpost.com/news/Home+ … story.html

Canadian Banks are More Prudent on Mortgage Lending than US Banks; I Can Prove It → globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot. … nt-on.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSYxlrE2rXI

canadabubble.com/bubble-article-list/1342-going-broke-canadas-debt-continues-to-mount.html

So by some measure, we less broke than Canada, but they do have a few small advantages which could help them get out of the hole: sitting on the worlds largest uranium deposits, being a net exporter of oil, and having a “knowledge economy” that’s based on more than a bunch of call centres and a corporate tax fiddle.

Nevertheless it seems that running big deficits is an endemic feature of western democracy. Politicians are faced with a decision: tax now to pay down the debt and lose the next election, or win the election and let the debt pile up.

So, Canada is in the middle of a property bubble. It still looks like a great place to emigrate to, especially if you’re restricted to the English speaking world.

On the plus side:
They have natural resources, large deposits of assorted useful minerals, some (expensive to remove) oil, gas, coal. I think natural resources, along with a well educated population, are going to be the key wealth a country can have over the next 50 years.
Massive amounts of arable land, even if it’s only about 5% of the surface area.
Good educational system
US as a neighbour

Negatives:
High national debt
Property bubble
5.8% (iirc) unemployment. Lower in places like Toronto, and significantly higher in places like Labrador.
US as a neighbour (this goes in both pluses and minuses for me.) I’m not 100% sure I’d trust the US not to go invading me if they needed some resources I had for their on-going economic prosperity.

I’m seriously considering emigrating, and Canada is the leading possibility now. Wife and I have what seem secure jobs, but while I can handle austerity and tax raises, and a drop in our standard of living without it upsetting me much (never was one for flashy anything), I don’t see anything changing through this crisis that would make me feel this is going to be the end of us doing this demented shite to ourselves every 25 years or so.

So, as nothing looks like changing, except us possibly becoming Germany’s bitch as well as Fianna Fails, then, emigrating now seems like a good plan while my twins are so young that they won’t even notice. I dislike the idea of hanging around for the next one of these and seeing my children have to emigrate instead of me.

Can anyone give me economic arguments against betting my families future on Canada? I’m resigned to renting over there, so a property bubble that hopefully seems to be starting to end isn’t a great worry unless I’m wrong in thinking it won’t tear their country apart like the mega-bubble we built.

I lived in Ottawa for 10 years, moved back in 08. On the economic front, there’s nothing to argue about, Canada wins hands down. But leaving a secure job to go may not be the best idea. Not all qualifications will be recognised over there…

It’s not such an exciting place, but maybe you don’t want to live in exciting times.

Be careful where you live, weather conditions in some parts can be very extreme, with up to 5 months of snow cover.

That was my last winter there :wink:

I grew up in Canada, great educational and social system, good governance, good banking sector, lots of opportunities.
Now, I’m home in Looney-Tunes-land.
What the hell did I do? :sick:
:laughing:

This is a huge issue for non-European engineers and doctors but I think that most Irish qualifications are recognised.

The weather is one of the biggest negatives. Apart from the Lower Mainland of BC, you are looking at months of serious cold. In Newfoundland, Spring starts in May and it often stays cool until the end of June. Keeping the driveway clear of snow becomes a full-time occupation from January to March. Many older people escape to trailer parks in Florida for as much of it as possible.

Code drives up house prices → winnipegfreepress.com/busine … 57604.html

Moving here is a No Brainer.

It amazes me why more people don’t do it. I left Ireland in 1997, watched in amazement at the bubble progressed. Went home a few times and did not like what it had become. The ‘Me’ generation my mum calls it.

Canada the whole time went up some as well, nothing like Ireland. It was pretty quiet, very conservative and almost boring. Now all I can say is, thank god for boring.

With 3 kids, dogs etc, I can’t imagine moving to Europe now, and living in a shoebox. As to the weather, it can snow a lot, gets very cold. But in reality, anyone who has gone through Irish and Canadian winters will tell you:

You will feel colder in Ireland due to the damp. I sure as hell don’t miss the damp. + You can go skiing

Got a good laugh from this:

Vancouver Bubble Watch: 25-Person Bidding War
paul.kedrosky.com/archives/2011/ … bubbl.html

This is old news. 20 % of property buyers in canada are from the people republic of china (not inc hong kong)

theglobeandmail.com/report-o … le1998181/

Where does that statistic come from? I highly doubt that’s true for all of Canada.

Vancouver Canada Boiling Hot Real estate Market → patrick.net/forum/?p=697896

Time to short Canadian banks?

Lived in Vancouver for a spell in 2004. There was massive enthusiasm for over-priced real estate when I was there. It was all talk of a boom coming with the Winter Olympics. They’d seen it all before in Calgary so they were all getting ready to back a sure thing. I even a Brit who was over to look at investment properties because the market was too overpriced back home.

This is one city that actually decided to have a property boom. They spoke of a target date of 2010 until which everyone agreed property prices would increase, leaving a “permanently larger city and economy” a la Calgary in the late 80s. Now that date has passed, and they’re all in property heaven because there’s been 8 years (or more) of stupid increases.

Speculators, foreign investors, betting on Toronto condo market → financialpost.com/Speculator … story.html