Operation Phase I - DIY (No Money Up Front)


#141

Quality! Keep up the pressure everyone keep the communication flowing!


#142

From an Independent -


#143

Sent this today to 4 local TD’s

"I am writing to you to make clear our concerns regarding the proposed NAMA legislation.

The recent Carroll case in the High Court and Supreme Court has exposed to the public the current value of property in Ireland. After years of trying to ride the crest of a hollow wave, we are now crashing, as we inevitably had to.

The “long-term economic valuation” that is proposed for NAMA is an amazing thing. The High Court described it as “fanciful”. The Supreme Court went even further, saying there was no objective evidence to support such a valuation. In fact, anyone giving serious consideration to the long-term value of property in Ireland would conclude that Irish property is still OVER-valued! When the average house returns to costing perhaps 5 times the average wage, we will have returned to normal. That is still some way off.

It would seem that NAMA is being set up to avoid nationalisation of the main banks. Why? Would a nationalised bank perform any worse than, say, Anglo-Irish? “But we must get banks lending again”. How is that related to nationalisation? If a client represented a good risk, the bank would lend. If they don’t, then why should the bank give them money? In fact, are we now not criticising the banks for doing precisely the things that would have kept us out of this mess in the first place?

NAMA, as proposed, will purchase assets at a multiple of the current market value, transferring massive wealth from every man, woman and child in this country to the Bondholders and Shareholders of the major financial institutions. And what will happen? Those that got us into this mess will dance away scot-free, the banks (rid of their dodgy debt) will very quickly return to profit and be snapped up by foreign institutions, and the taxpayer will be left holding the baby. A phrase already exists for what is proposed: NAMA will “privatise the profits, socialise the losses”.

I have read about Ireland of the past, about failed economic policies, about corrupt politicians, about abuse of children, about the devastation of emigration, and wondered how the electorate of the times let those things happen. I vowed that if I ever saw something as corrupt and stupid happening again I would do everything in my power to stop it.

Let this house of cards fall. Let the Government stand ready, and where true poverty and hardship and need appear, let the Government step in. I will pay more tax to prevent hardship, and I will pay more tax to heal the wounds hardship causes. But why should I pay more tax to line the pockets of developers and bank shareholders? They knew the risks they were taking, and in the blind pursuit of profit, they have almost brought the State to its knees.

If NAMA is to be implemented, I could support it if:

(a) we bought up most of the Share Capital of the banks, thereby reaping whatever long-term gain comes to pass,
(b) we pursued every reckless borrower for every cent lent, and
© if the banks shed, without golden handshakes or golden parachutes or golden buckets and spades, every reckless lender.

It is my opinion, however, that NAMA as currently proposed is a dreadful mistake. You may have a different opinion. Other deputies, and other parties, may have other views again. One thing is certain though. This will affect us for decades to come.

Please carefully consider all the facts before taking a position on NAMA. We are sleepwalking towards the edge of an abyss."


#144

#145

From my local green organisation:
**Thank you for your feedback, I am of course disappointed that you have lost faith in the Greens but I hope that we can work to rebuild it.
We are currently undergoing an extensive consultation with a members on NAMA that so far has involved a members conference and two seminars on the topic. The issue of pricing is of course crucial, but so too is the planning aspect. The heads of the bill published last month has had strong Green impact in several ways - the Board of NAMA will include not just economists but also planners. The Minister for the Environment will also be given stronger powers to ensure that greenfield sites that have no potential for development are taken from the banks at extremely low prices.
However, as our Party Chairman commented Sunday, further amendments to the bill are needed and we hope to use our position in Government to ensure that these changes are made before the bill comes into law. I hope you will continue to communicate with us during this period. Yours etc… **


#146

This is for real. I got it too.


#147

Whos that from guys. Why the secrecy?


#148

Because unless they want to swear affidavits we can’t verify any of these responses.


#149

Oh. Good point.


#150

An email header would do it for me.


#151

Like…

Give me a break, anything like that, even jpeged is 100% non verifiable.

Let them forward the juicy ones to Harry McGee and let him publish them! :smiling_imp:


#152

There are more specific details in email headers.
Not always easy to reveal in gmail but you can in an email client.

For example

https://www.wurd.com/images/entourage_osx_headers02.gif


#153

Every header is as easy to fake as the From header.


#154

:nin How to trace the source of an email whatismyipaddress.com/forum/index.php?forum=13


#155

Interesting reply from somebody connected to the economic policy group of the Green Party…

Nate


#156

Pat Rabbitte Plugs the “No Money Up Front” Campaign.

independent.ie/business/iris … 67277.html


#157

I emailed everyone on the long list more than a week ago. From FF I’ve gotten only one or two responses asking for my details other than one or two asking for my details but nothing else. Labour responses are still dribbling in but zero from FF, who don’t seem to have even organised a canned reply.

Arrogance? Disorganisation? Dissent?


#158

I’m the exact same Kate. Got 2 FFers replies - both simple acknowledgements of recipt of my emails. I don’t know what to make of it to be honest. Are they just keeping their heads down and hoping the issue goes away? Do they just not read email? Are they all on holiday? Who knows…


#159

I’ve had two substantive FF replies. I don’t have the text of the first in front of me (snail mail) but it essentially said that the IMF report and international consensus supports NAMA. The second was as follows:


#160

Just got this reply from a FF Senator seems FF are saying that there is no market price!