OUCH - Sean Quinn & Family - €715m in Aug to just €58m


€715m in Aug to just €58m (but we are still talking millions)?

Sure that hurts but doesn’t really make a difference in the quality of life I’d say.

That all depends on how much Quinn leveraged to get the 15% stake in the first place. It wouldn’t suprise me if he was personally close to going bankrupt

Yep, but thats back in August. World has changed dramatically over recent weeks. They have lost a mint at this stage. Brokers running a mile from placing clients insurance with Quinn now. Lights out in 2009

Now, that’s an old article. “Saturday, December 6, 2008”

Looking here, anglo is at 16c a share right now:
uk.finsearch.yahoo.com/uk/?s=uk_ … irish+bank

So, if at 52 cent a share, Sean Quinn and his family had a stake worth €58 million, then it’s probably a little lower now.

so, how many shares would did they own at 52 cent? Well, 58 million divided by €0.52 is about 111538462 shares.

so, how much is 111538462 shares worth at 0.16 cent? Multiply them together and you get about 17.85 million

**SUM OF ALL FEARS ** :nin

Still think they will collapse in 2009. Of course, you still have to watch what sort of dancing goes on within senior FF circles to try and save them. Why save them, the existing customers of Quinn will be rescued by the entire Irish insurance industry and small businesses will not be found without insurance cover. That’s the way the industry operates. Unless Gov get involved and if they do, they will make a dogs dinner of the situation and ultimately cost the tax payer in the long run. Just watch that space in 2009, we are well on the way :angry:

By “clients insurance” I suppose you mean commercial, since insurance brokers have more or less lost the consumer business. Mainly thanks to the efforts of the likes of Quinn and FBD who have forced just about everybody to go down the direct path. So I’d say there’s no love lost there.

Probably only a matter of time before the same happens to the commercial business.

Writing on the wall for insurance brokers. You wouldn’t be one of them, would you, Max?

:laughing: Thankfully not SC :laughing:
Tough times ahead for those guys as some of main insurers already muting commission cuts on the cards to reduce their costs as rate hikes not being achieved as expected. Brokers caught between their client demanding premium reductions and insurers seeking premium increases. Something has to give and looks like commissions are going to be chopped. How significant will depend on how the rate increases go for 2009 (or not) whichever way you look at it.

Max I have seen several posts of yours over the last year constantly slating Quinn Insurance and predicting their imminent demise.

Can you come clean on your own involvement in the insurance industry? You sound like an insider and are constantly citing rumours about Quinn Insurance that are verging on libellous at times. If you work for a company where Quinn is a competitor this may well be a bunch of sour grapes on your part and you would have an obvious agenda.

All that the rest of us non-insiders know for sure is the published info about Quinn Insurance and no more.

What we do know is that QI is part of the Quinn group which has significant other assets and businesses and I would hope and expect that Sean Quinn would put money into QI if it got into trouble from his own resources/mortgaging his other businesses/assets as I think he has previously done during the early years of QI if I remember correctly.

Are you another of these people on here with a hidden agenda or some sort of vendetta against Quinn? He is obviously not a saint but his group has over 3000 people employed and he started with almost nothing taking on many closed shops/monopolies along the way in sectors such as cement and glass. Do you want to see Quinn go to the wall and his assets stripped probably by overseas investors - do you think this would be a good thing for the country? How many jobs have you personally created in the economy?

To sum up could you give your vendetta against Quinn a rest for 2009 unless you have some real info (with links) to publish and not unsubstantiated gossip?

p.s I have no involvement whatsoever with the Quinn group or the insurance sector just sick and tired about unlinked unsubstantiated rumours been paraded on here that may actually have a negative effect on the businesses and livelihoods of real people.

caledonia, can you please clarify if you are any relation to sovereign?

Max has commented extensively on AIG, another insurance company. I believe his particular interest is insurance companies as one of the next boots to fall. As someone who has a variety of insurances with a variety of insurance and reinsurance companies, this is a concern to me and to many. As with many models in other financial areas, the lowest cost operators have proved to be the most exposed. Equally, large supposedly well-diversified enterprises have proven to have clay feet through cross-contamination, excessive profit transfer and poor risk management across the conglomerate. Finally, as tax payers, we and our children are bearing the burden of poor management decisions in the name of ‘systemic’ importance.

While you may not like Max’s style of posting, please adhere to the posting rules and provide counter-arguments to the content.

I think the issues Caledonia raised are valid and deserve a better response than being sent off to read the posting guidelines; much of what Max Headroom posts on Quinn is anecdotal and unsourced, including one very specific allegation last year which may or may not have been true, but if untrue would surely be libellous; I think we are entitled to ask if Max Headroom is a VI regarding any aspect of the insurance industry and/or has a v.i. in Quinn not doing well.

I agree with you…

so with good points to make, why snipe?

As were many of the allegations against US banks last year. Allegations that turned out to be true, but which started as rumour and innuendo.

I don’t believe there is a conspiracy against Quinn - I have insurance with them and did not change it this year despite my misgivings. However, I do have misgivings about a company as important as Quinn being run as the personal fiefdom of its founder.

Got no VI in seeing any business fail, they fail of their own accord. I am not a lone commentor, the evidence so far is clear and almost transparent for all to see. You either take a close interest in a given situation and monitor developments and come to your own conclusions or you ignore the information. Q has done a lot to reduce insurance costs in this country but at what cost? Price is not everything when it comes to insurance. There have been countless high profile cases reported in the meeja regarding commercial companies who were insured by Q and who had sufferred serious claims in terms of large fire losses and the destruction of their companies. Only to find themselves having to go to court to get their rightful claim payout from Q after they put up all sorts of barriers rather than have to pay the claim.

When you pay significant insurance premiums for your factory and business insurance you expect a certain minimum level of service, in other words, when you have a genuine claim, you expect the claim be paid without question. That is, after all why people buy insurance.

Evidentally, this has not been the case with Q and the long list of high profile court cases reaffirm that cheap insurance cover does not mean quality insurance cover. Sadly, some of the policyholders mentioned in the meeja have had their businesses destroyed and had to lay off staff because claim settlement was not forthcoming in a timely manner as would be the case with more established and robust insurance companies.

The manner in which Q has run their insurance company has set off serious alarm bells both within the Financial Regulatory and wider insurance industry. The stability of the insurance company and the safeguarding of its customers and employees were put at serious risk - FACT. Now you either take notice of this or you ignore the facts and pretend all is fine. There are some with a strong VI to ignore the situation and pretend this sort of company management is acceptable and fine within a important financial sector to this economy. The rules are there for all insurance companies to follow.

I pass personal comment on these matters just like the next pinster, you either say it as it is or you adopt a head in the clouds approach and ignore the problem. This is exactly the reason the global credit crisis has become such a cancer, VI groups silenced those who saw it for what it was and look where we are today as a result. We live in a democracy, freedom of speech. If we do not collective tackle the issues we run the risk of ignoring a serious problem that will develop into a more widespread concern.

I still hold very considerable concerns regarding the survival of Q based on my understanding of those operations. I hope I am wrong but we need to have a Plan B should the chickens come home to roost, which appears to be the developing situation. I got no special VI in Q failing, competition is good and I believe in it but the rules are not being just bent but broken. Those very rules are there for good reason. The insurance industry has been around for hundreds of years, certainly long before Q arrived on the scene with unorthodoxed approaches which are at odds with the rules and principles established over hundreds of years which have built the insurance industry into such an important enabler of economic success for all global economies. So who has got it wrong? Q or the global insurance market?

Libellous you shout? No, just sticking to the facts, and calling it for what it is, like it, hate it, the truth will always prevail. Unless of course you got a VI to suppress comments on these important matters? I say, get the story out there for all to see and understand, if there is nothing to hide, then whats the problem. If you got a different perspective on the issue then articulate the argument. Remember Q was the guy how maintained he saw great future value in Anglo - such horse shit. This is classic self believe in your own horse shite.

Sean owes me 600 euros, which his company agreed to pay me over 6 years ago but didn’t cough up.
This is karma, Sean.

So does this mean that Young, Irish and Wealthy yoke that RTÉ showed the other night was truly a load of bullocks? According to it, Sean Quinn’s kids were the richest young people in Ireland…

Whether it is accurate or not, that show was an abysmal choice of selection for Christmas viewing as we approach one of our most financially fearful years in decades.
It shows the apparent, almost sneering disdain RTE have for commoners like us, as well as their servile mimicking of similar British programming.

The issue of Quinn Insurance funding ( not Quinn Group funding) has arisen before

Quinn has , as Max asserts , an unusual reserve structure for an insurance company .

Back in 2000

archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/200 … 518728.asp

The issue for discussion on the Pin , based on information in the public domain such as annual reports and company statements, is whether the CURRENT reserve structure is of a broadly comparative prudential nature as the reserve structure of its competitors .

Geckko had a look at this in Sep based on 2006 info.


No relation to anyone on here as far as I know (as everyone on here is anonymous to me anyway)!

Without being an insider in the insurance business how can one provide counter argument to a bunch of unsupported assertions and allegations being continuously posted here related to Quinn? Whether ultimately true or not these some of these allegations seem libellous and I am surprised that the mods here are letting some of posts I have seen on some threads relating to QI stand.


The volunteer moderating crew do their best to vet as many posts as possible from a number of angles but there is also a responsibility on the user to report posts via the boards software or by PM to any of the team about any issue they feel is not in line with the terms and conditions in the welcome forum.

It’s alot more useful than cribbing’n’moaning with a holier than thou attitude about obscure posts in a completely generalistic manner.

Please point out any posts you feel cross the line specifically and people will take a look at them.

It’s a thin white line but these sort of comments really don’t help, we need specific examples.

For my part, I rarely read any of the AIG / Quinn stuff…