PAN-CHAOS - Libya > Egypt > Syria > Iran > Iraq > US


#1481

Just stick the facts, I’ll ignore the condescension.

Do you know any Iranians? They’re not particularly religious… Remember Iran was once a secular state and are not that religious today. Most Muslims hate Whabbis, Ibn Saud’s success is largely due to the British, and they destroy all the Muslim relics. Extremist Whabbism is largely the creation of Saudi Arabia and its oil wealth.

Hussein in Iraq was the creation of the CIA

politico.eu/article/why-the- … ervention/

Afghanistan has been under constant invasion and warfare for years. It was reasonably stable before the Soviets invaded.

US don’t like Assad as he’s a Russian ally. They like to give the impression that if you submit and accept US hegemony than nothing bad will happen, on the other hand… They seem to have no problem with Saudi Arabia who throw gay people off buildings.


#1482

Wouldn’t the best option be for the US to be not involved at all? It seems everywhere they intervene in turns to shit with millions ruthlessly murdered, predominately by US and Russian weaponry cheatsheet.com/business/the- … ?a=viewall (which is great for defense companies of course).

Somehow by suggesting that Russia and China are bad actors too that makes everything the US does perfectly acceptable. That’s hypocrisy. How old a person is doesn’t matter if you’re completely wrong! Regarding Syria, the civil war initiated by the Arab spring would not have got very far had the US not thrown billion$ of guns and bombs into the equation so that everyone can kill each other.

This is from ‘The Fog of War’ a quote from Khrushchev:

“We and you ought not to pull on the ends of a rope which you have tied the knots of war. Because the more the two of us pull, the tighter the knot will be tied. And then it will be necessary to cut that knot, and what that would mean is not for me to explain to you. I have participated in two wars and know that war ends when it has rolled through cities and villages, everywhere sowing death and destruction. For such is the logic of war. If people do not display wisdom, they will clash like blind moles and then mutual annihilation will commence.”

  • You think the US doesn’t know this? Of course they do, that’s why their actions are indefensible. War is racket. Always has been.

archive.org/stream/WarIsARacket … t_djvu.txt


#1483

You then proceed to condescend on people from several countries claiming they are not capable of screwing up on their own and its all the fault of those damned British (where have we heard that before eh).

It would, and they barely are involved, the campaign against ISIS has been half hearted at best, Obama simply does not care about the middle east like previous presidents before him. And now due to fracking and US becoming #1 oil producer the conspiracy theorists no longer can use the “They are in middle east to get oil” angle. Now Russians on the other hand are very much there to prevent themselves from being put out of business, higher oil prices is the only thing that can rescue the Putin regime now from its own contradictions.


#1484

Well good night then, you just played your hand! If you believe this then you are truly ill informed. Go read a few books and and get back to us when you have had an overdue epiphany, we’ll give you a hug. :smiley:


#1485

Well good night yourself

I also recommend you read a history book or two specifically on the Cold war and what it was like to live under Russia, or ask any of the eastern Europeans living here in Ireland above a certain age.

I said earlier in the thread there are 3 opposing “isms” at work here, with Syria being one of the interesections of these “worlds”

  • Western Democracies
  • Russian Neo Fascism/nationalism
  • Islamism

Of the three guess which is the least worst option.


#1486

I agree with a lot of what you say here, and I see the Sauds as very similar to ISIS in terms of how they run a country. But what policy would you have the west run with in regards Saudi Arabia?

There is clear hypocrisy in having support for the Saudis and not supporting other dictators in the region. You could argue that some dictators crossed a line when people rose up and demanded some form of democracy and civil wars began. Is that the difference?


#1487

Was is wrong to support the Arab spring? If so, why? Destabilising a dictator is not an ok reason - no matter whose ally it is…i.e if there was an uprising in Saudi Arabia demanding an end to the rule of the house of Saud would it be wrong to support them?


#1488

And guess which is the worst?


#1489

Your post makes no sense, I said pick the least worst option

If you want to live in Russia or any number of Islamist shitholes you are more than welcome to go there, take your family with you too.

Send us postcards about how you get on.


#1490

#1491

It’s an interesting question all of them have problems. Here are a few books regarding the failure of democracy…

amazon.com/Myth-American-De … 475981007/

amazon.com/Democracy—God- … 765808684/

also worth a read:

amazon.com/Power-Bertrand-J … 865971137/

Founding fathers of the US were exceptional people educated to a standard that no longer exists and truly did their best to create a democratic US. But I think the best days of Western Democracy are long gone.


#1492

Some “failure” :slight_smile:

I would rather have myself and my family live in such “failed democracies” such as here in Ireland, US, Canada, Australia, Japan etc etc

Than any of the Islamic shitholes or Putin’s new “alternative to the West” which by every definition of what he has done up to now is fascism.

Yes things arent all rosy and we have a whole forum here on the Pin full of threads where we discuss all sorts of problems from hospitals to transport to housing

But once again I take all of that over the other 2 “options” any day.

Is a world run/influence/affected by the likes of Putin or Islamists a world where I want my children to live? The answer is a resounding no

So going back to my point and opinion the US and its people for all their fuckups and problems are an exponentially better option than Putin’s Russian or that shithole called the Middle East. And hence gain my support.


#1493

If you were iranian you’d probably say the same thing about the West. It’s impossible to be objective about such things.

fameiva.com/happiest-tribe-on-earth/

I agree that’s better than many of the alternatives.


#1494

Off you go to Iran so, to gain some objectivity. Bring your kids too. Make sure none of you have homosexual leanings (Allah wont like that) and hence you could learn the reasons for separation of church and state.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rig … ic_of_Iran

Iran to its credit had negotiated with Obama and a deal was reached regarding their nuclear ambitions without resorting to war. Which sort of throws a spanner into the “bloodthirsty gungho Americans” rhetoric?


#1495

This is true if the choice is between living in the US or Russia

But when it comes to a country like Syria what will it look like if Assad/Putin win the war or if the Islamists backed by the US/Saudi/Qatar win, because I doubt the Saudis and co have plans for democracy or human rights ect


#1496

Well neither will want to provide an option of becoming a democratic “normal” country. Russia doesnt even bother paying lip service to appearing democratic anymore as we seen this months “elections”, Putins power has been cemented so why bother.

An UN intervention to stop the war with peacekeepers and rebuild the country would be torpedoed by Russia, who nowadays have no problems killing UN staff by dropping bombs on them.

Which furthers my point that both of these sides are f&*cking evil. The whole Syrian civil war started due to the average person who is now stuck between a rock and hard placing wanting to have a better place for their kids to grow up in.

But hey lets blame the US for everything :angry:


#1497

Startling analysis of recent events combined with a grim assessment of the overall situation here - debka.com/article/25696/US-R … -in-Syria-

Couple of disjointed thoughts of my own on th esubject -

  1. We all accept that we are currently at war with Russia on 3 fronts - Syria, Ukraine and the Baltic.
    If you dont realise this your analysis is flawed. Search for the “Gerasimov Doctrine”.
  2. The Syrian govt has allowed civilians and rebel fighters safe passage to leave other areas. This has been offered in Aleppo too but reports suggest that civilians trying to leave are fired upon; who is firing at them? Channel 4s Alex Thompson (@alextomo) has some revealling tweets about rebels in eastern Aleppo shelling civilians in western (govt controlled) Aleppo. The implication is that US and European backed rebels are using Civilians as human shields.
  3. I cannot understand what is so important about Syria that we (in the west) need to sacrifice all these civilians for; whats wrong with just letting the Russians have the damn place?
  4. There are no good guys here.
  5. One more gung-ho US action will start a world war.

#1498

What do you mean ‘we’, paleface?


#1499

It’s a power play for influence and control in the region. Iran/Syria/Russia vs US/Saudi Arabia. Israel is playing both sides but mostly aligned with the US. It originally started as Assad was too cosy with Russia and unwilling to put American interests above Russian interests as he refused to build a pipeline that would have negatively effected Russia.

Iran vs Saudi is an ancient conflict each want the other destroyed.

US in complete disarray:

Hillary might start WWIII through incompetence, will she be able to get an effective handle on the many disparite alphabet agencies and their competing interests? She seems to be quite hawkish,

After watching her 'I respect Merkel especially her immigration policy’ comments, I increasingly think she is unhinged.


#1500

The human shields are last line of defence and someone is cynically using this little girl as cover on facebook and other social media platforms, one may want to look more closely at the white helmets propaganda when they find the next child to put on the front page. It’s not all one way the Russians are using the same tacticson their people.

Showdown in Aleppo - Patrick BAHZAD -> turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semp … leppo.html

HOW FAR ARE WE FROM WAR WITH RUSSIA OVER SYRIA? - -> ericmargolis.com/2016/10/how-far … ver-syria/

U.S. Special Forces Sabotage White House Policy Gone Disastrously Wrong with Covert Ops In Syria - -> jfmxl.sdf.org/Syria/20160914-us- … wrong.html

Whistleblower exposes how NATO’s leading ally is arming and funding ISIS - -> medium.com/insurge-intelligence … 2238698f52

Back to Turkey

Erdogan wants EU visa-free travel for Turks by end of month - -> presstv.ir/Detail/2016/10/01 … an-eu-game

The second coup in Turkey is coming before November, ex-military officer warns - -> yenisafak.com/en/news/the-se … ns-2536800

Kremlin spokesman doesn’t rule out Putin visit to Turkey in October - -> armenpress.am/eng/news/861797/k … tober.html

Gazprom Has Green Light Offshore Turkey - -> naturalgaseurope.com/gazprom … rkey-31911

Pentagon deploying still more US troops to Iraq as Mosul operation looms - -> janes.com/article/64170/pent … tion-looms

UN Working to Pre-Position Aid Around Mosul Prior to Military Operations - -> sputniknews.com/world/20160928/ … mosul.html

700,000 will need aid once Mosul offensive begins: UN - -> en.abna24.com/service/middle-eas … story.html

The battle of Mosul could create 700,000 refugees - -> neweurope.eu/article/battle … -refugees/

Putting one’s finger in the Mosul Dam - -> rudaw.net/english/analysis/04032016

Meanwhile in Yemen, someone got hold of anti-ship missiles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaMSb_7_3cM

UAE military vessel damaged in ‘incident’ off coast of Yemen - -> tribune.com.pk/story/1191887/uae … ast-yemen/

And in the India vs Pakistan ongoing conflict things are getting hot again.

India’s ‘surgical strikes’ remain an enigma - -> blogs.rediff.com/mkbhadrakumar/2 … an-enigma/

BEWARE THE KASHMIR VOLCANO - -> ericmargolis.com/2016/09/beware- … r-volcano/