PAN-CHAOS - Libya > Egypt > Syria > Iran > Iraq > US


#1521

airforcetimes.com/story/mil … /88400838/

The denial is carefully worded…


#1522

reuters.com/article/us-venez … SKCN12801I

:laughing:


#1523

It is a civil war. I don’t like fact but it’s the reality. The country has been destroyed. Russia was asked to intervene late in the day. War is terrible.

I don’t know what is going on in Syria I try and judge based on the info I have at hand. I don’t see either side as angels, it’s a geopolitical power struggle Syria just happens to be the playing field.

Personally I dislike US foreign policy and dislike US hegemony so to an extent I am rooting for the Russians. I think Russia/Syria/Iran/China etc. should be allowed to develop along their own unique paths without US interference. However I cannot predict the future and we are entering dangerous times.

I find the alternative media equal if not better than the MSM.


#1524

So was the civil war in Lebanon which was just as bloody and went on for longer

The whole purpose of the UN is to prevent armed conflict and another world war, also to offer humanitarian aid

It doesn’t help that Russia has no issues bombing UN aid convoys and destroying any attempts at bringing peace via UN

War is terrible is not an excuse, it is quite clear by now that Putin is not interested in peace contrary to his rhetoric actions speak louder than words


#1525

Both the US and Russia have differing strategic priorities in Syria. The Russians want to keep Assad as an allay and to prevent the US destabilising the region. The US want Assad gone as he is considered pro-Russian.

It’s extremely difficult to broker a compromise that both Russia/Iran/Assad will accept that will also be acceptable to the US. I also think the Russians no longer consider the US to be trustworthy after the breakdown in the cease fire agreement (largely due to differing opinions in the US command executive vs Pentagon).

The US could simply stop supporting the rebels and support Assad and the conflict would be over quite quicky, the Russians could also stop supporting Assad and the conflict would end quickly. There are no good guys here, it’s a power struggle.

My own opinion is that is better to leave Assad in place. The alternative is a balkanisation of Syria into Sunni/Shia/Alawite/Kurd countries. This would suit the Saudis as Iran would lose a major ally. WWIII is also a distinct possibility as the Russians have made clear.

The evidence is not clear that Russia bombed the aid convoy.


#1526

Supporting a dictator who is willing to kill to cling onto power is storing up problems for later


#1527

As for the rest of your post the if there is a movement for a UN peacekeeping as a solution to the civil war, to keep peace in a ceasefire and provide aid
Who is going to veto it US or Russia? do tell us
Politically the US will not and can not veto it, they might at worst abstain along with China
Russia on the other hand are guaranteed to veto any motion for peace, they already done so today at the UN, clearly showing to the world that they do not want peace.


#1528

It’s impossible to know who did what. All propaganda from both sides. I certainly don’t trust the US/European media. Did you read the bit above about Kerry telling blatant lies to slander Russia? Why do you trust these people?

Re Peacekeeping, Who knows, pure speculation. Would largely depend on whether the US or Russia thought the outcome was in their interest. The Russians and the Americans did recently attempt to work out a deal between them that was opposed by the Pentagon and is now in ruins.

Regarding Assad, the only other option is to Balkanise. Maybe this is inevitable long term, but more likely outcome is a failed state with tribal warlords like Libya and Iraq.


#1529

In other news
independent.co.uk/news/world … 53486.html


#1530

Are narratives like this how you view the world? Little storylines acted along pre defined roles leading to inevitable conclusions?

The problem is when the axiomatic assumptions behind them don’t hold up to scrutiny but I doubt in your case that will ever be a problem. I said above that Russia is no angel, so I have no idea why you are conflating my viewpoint with a Russian nationalist but you have. I am apparently now a Russian Nationalist as they fits your preconceived storyline. Effectively anyone who disagrees with you becomes a Russian nationalist without any scope for nuance. Good vs Bad, right vs wrong, simplistic dichotomies.


#1531

Fuck Syria… this is rapidly going 1983…

Much more serious than the DefCons of the Yom Kippur War in '73.

First we have…

sputniknews.com/middleeast/201610091046153043-us-lavrov-syria/

The key phrase here is “intentional law”. What Lavrov is saying is that any US attacks on Assad will be considered by the Russians as an attack on Russia. This is pure Cold War phraseology.

The there was this quote in an interview on Russian TV on Sunday night…

reuters.com/article/us-russia-usa-idUSKCN1290DP

It would be interesting to see exactly which phrase Lavrov used in Russian for “threat to our security” but given Russia current stated defense strategy and war plans of the last ten years thats about as explicit as it gets for a tact nuke threat given Russias current war strategy and war plans.

The Ikander story has been getting a lot of play the last few days, in a very odd way given previous deployments in Kaliningrad, but I had not realized just how quickly the Russians had deployed the Yars in the last 12 to 18 months, bypassing the Topol M. Given the US dependence on SLBM’s the Russian Topol/Yars mix would give the Russian very much the winning edge in pretty much all Red/Blue wargame scenarios. Even with a non compromised US President.

Then there is this story tonight … I know its Zero Hedge (so low signal to noise ratio) but the original Russian source looks ligit. I’m going to ask a Russian speaking family member for their take on the tone of the article in Russian…

zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-11/russian-government-officials-told-immediately-bring-back-children-studying-abroad

Russian story.

znak.com/2016-10-11/rossiyskim_chinovnikam_i_deputatam_rekomendovano_vernut_detey_i_roditeley_na_rodinu

On the surface, if true, this is a scary as shit development…


#1532

Another key phrase is “legitimate government”, very funny when talking about Syria or any other dictatorship

I think Putin would like to really test NATO because when it comes down to it…its a bluff isn’t it, NATO I mean? Would the world risk annihilation for one country? Putin would like to expose that.

Unless of course you fight a NATO/Russia war without nuclear weapons but once one side starts to lose they could easily come out and escalate.
Even in a scenario that confines the weapons to a battlefield on initial use.

Probably never a bad time to stock up on tinned food as a general rule while these weapons are in existence


#1533

Relax. Nothing to worry about. If a bottoxed out rat was really planing something he and his machine wouldn’t talk about it it day in day out.
Its a given that he is in trouble and half of his immediate crowd wants him dead.


#1534

I think it’s about time for this clip. :wink:


#1535

What exactly do you think he would be planning in secret? A nuclear strike on the US? He has clearly laid down his Red line, an attack on aircraft in Syria will lead to war. Simple.


#1536

He has no plans to speak off. USA and UK governments have a measure of him since early 90. And those around him.
But for some reason they choose to deal with it…


#1537

I don’t disagree I think the Putin genius is overstated and from what I gather he has many enemies mainly amongst the Russian elite but is popular with ordinary Russians. He probably has more of an idea than the UK or US governments who are largely adrift in ideological idiocy.


#1538

I suspect we will be hearing an awful lot of stuff like this as the West swings into ‘regime change’ mode. The oldest trick in the book and we’re well used to it now.


#1539

The Former UK Ambassador to Syria Peter Ford tells it like it is. Well worth listening to.


#1540

Kicking ISIS out of Mosul may not be the end of the story, judging by Erdogan’s recent rhetoric. He may put his statesman’s face on for the west, but yesterday’s outburst shows him up for a sabre-rattling little shitbag. Mosul came close to becoming part of Turkey after WWI, and the area contains most of the 10% of the Iraqi population that are ethnic Turks. More recent tensions were between Arabs and Kurds during Saddam’s Arabisation policy. But recently the Baghdad government and the Kurds finally reached agreement on revenue sharing from northern oil fields. Erdogan’s biggest nightmare would be to have a dolly mixture of what he sees as Iranian stooges plus Kurds on his doorstep.