PAN-CHAOS - Libya > Egypt > Syria > Iran > Iraq > US


#1621

So what was Afghanistan in 80s (and 00s)? Iraq? Libya? Iran/Iraq? Vietnam? Korea?

WW 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5, 2.6, 2.7… ? What makes Syria different? Most of the above were exponentially more bloody and kinetic and far reaching than Syria is now.

If anything Syria is a prime example of a Cold War style proxy war with extra regional actors thrown in.

Cold War 2.0 I say, be happy that Obama wanted so badly to get the hell out of the middle east, the new guy might not have much issues dropping a nuclear bomb on “em arabs” judging by his tweets.


#1622

None of the others had one million persons, predominately of a significantly different cultural background and religious background, migrating across multiple borders and being ferried with open doors policy into European continent with obligation to provide services to them in Europe.
That’s the difference.
It’s war through and by power of people, the people being refugees.

Merkel and her elite commanders have deliberately set up a situation for conflict. Very much so.
The refugees are experienced in conflict. Does not conflict beget conflict?

The root causes are not being tackled at all properly.
And a so called “humanitarian” response is being shown to be designed to cause difficulties for the receiving countries.

While Russia and Iran have, IMHO, thankfully constrained the crisis in Syria, we see political failure and fear to ask being the predominant feature of European politics right now. Just as it was in Germany during the rise of the Third Reich.
No one wants to break ranks for fear of such basic matters of their ATMs being turned off and the cash being unavailable.

The continent of Europe is now being ran by elites, including Merkel and many other senior politicians, who are doing what they are told. And what they are told is about setting up a big war in Europe. That’s where we are.


#1623

It’s a difference tho’ once again what makes it WW3? Arabs killing each other in the middle east isnt exactly new :frowning:

A new twist on Putin’s hybrid warfare against us in the west, all while our resident “useful idiots” are cheering him on.

I be more worried about Trumps and Putins latest nuclear dick measuring contest this week.
newyorker.com/news/news-desk … by-mistake


#1624

UK, US, Israel, Europe and Russia, coupled with local despots, are all to blame for the carnage in the Middle East. Anyone who buys into western propaganda that Russia are the ‘sole’ instigators are naive and worryingly misinformed.


#1625

I’ll try again.

Syria is WW3. End.


#1626

Nukes exploding on others territories are not the opening act in world war III. They were the last act in World war II against large civilian population centres and no doubt would have been dropped on Dresden or other German cities had they been available. During the cold war nuclear tests were confined to remote islands and deserts, civilians in the vicinity of these tests suffered the direct long term health effects. The cold war end game saw treaties put in place to reduce the number of nuclear weapons and some of these treaties were broken during the reign of George Bush II whose unwise actions have uncorked the kinetic war in the middle East. You should be well used to Trumps strategy by now, open with a big offer and then roll back in the negotiations with what you really want and both sides can walk away with something from the deal. The United States remains the only country to have ever used nuclear weapons directly against civilians in war. Large scale nuclear weapons only tactical use is in scorched earth policy to deny an advancing enemy use of resources in captured territory, however their primary role is that of weapons of terror used to scare civilian populations into compliance by their own governments. Anyone who thinks nukes act as a deterrent to war learned nothing from the actions of Churchill and Bomber Harris over Germany, not only did the bombing raids not stop the war, they likely extended it by forcing the enemy to disperse their war production over a wider area which only came to a stop when the transport infrastructure got destroyed. The ruling megalomaniacs (Churchill, Hitler, Roosevelt, Stalin, Hirohito, Chiang Kai Shek, Mao Zedong) remained in power, none were successfully overthrown by their own populations as a result of destruction of civilian population centres. Mutually assured destruction only stops the major powers from direct military attacks on each other, it has never stopped nuclear powers engaging in combat via diplomacy (i.e. the UN) or proxy wars that draw in the rest of the world. You see this in Africa (Competition for resources in traditional Western colonies vs China), The Middle East (West vs China competition for resources), The Ukraine (Russian backed kleptocrats Vs Western backed kleptocrats) and the South China Sea (US allies vs China building up bases, with North Korea as Chinas sabre rattling proxy) and thrown into this quagmire the Muslim populations reaction to modernity which sees unification under the Caliphate as the answer.

World War II did not start in 1939, that was the final conflagration in the war, the war was well under way from the mid 1930s most visible in the foreign parities involved in the Spanish civil war (testing weapons and tactics) and the Japanese conquest of Manchuria (with backing for the Chinese from Western powers). Increased military spending and economic sanctions were also a prelude to the final conflagration (1939-1945).

Putin is an insider (ex-KGB) from the Soviet regime, as the leader of a country whose wealth is based on resource extraction, he sees power in terms of territory held and for him land is power. His brand of Russian nationalism seeks to regain the territories of “near Russia” as an antidote to reform of the Russian bureaucracy and dependence on resource extraction. If you compare the Russian and Chinese ruling regimes to the disintegration of socialism in their countries, you can see that the Chinese adopted a sit back and let the people get on with it approach to economic development while they kept power, law and order, their people built their own enterprises and have been very successful, the Russians still have the old Soviet bureaucratic overhead interfering in their citizens lives and now that the price of those resources has fallen in the current cycle and an economic blockade has been enforced, the Russian regime has turned to nationalism as a distraction from it’s lack of reform and are able to play on that paranoia using examples from their history such as invasions of Napoleon and Hilter from the West. In order to cover his back Putin has had to make some cut price deals with the Chinese leadership and long term that is something the Russians will have to deliver on as the Chinese seek to reinvigorate the silk road mainly to get resources out of central Asia. For now Russia and China are mutual allies under the umbrella of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation.

From what I see Trump has no interest in expanding wars (he also has too many significant domestic enemies to contend with, Putin does not) and is protectionist in outlook, the faction of the government military industrial complex that has backed him also sees the policy pursued by the previous administrations in the middle east and against Russia as fruitless. They see China as the real long term threat to their interests and would prefer to orientate themselves to a policy of containment rather than direct confrontation. Trump also sees countries like Germany, Britain, France and Japan as getting a free ride with subsidised American military protection while at the same time undermining American domestic industries, especially with trade barriers. The EU and US are currently engaged in an undeclared trade war that involves American corporations (Apple, Facebook, Google) versus German corporations (Volkswagen, Duetchebank), under Trumps administration what way do you think this is going to go? All governments seek more tax revenue, and EU based governments with moribund economic growth, high unemployment and huge welfare spending (corporate and social) have hit a wall, they can’t raise taxes much more (Irish water is fundamentally a tax protest) without significant resistance from their own populations and must enter a period of significant reform themselves, the EU which was meant to be a stabilising political force has become the problem for Europeans by preventing any significant reform by bailing them out members and enforced a failed economic doctrine of negative interest rates and bond buying programs to cover the mess. Who is going to buy Irish sovereign debt when they stop? I said months ago if Clinton wins we fight Russia, if Trump wins we fight among ourselves so far that’s the way things are shaping.


#1627

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryA4zYUH6P0

Damascus suffers drinking water outage, authority accuses rebels of contaminating water sources - -> globaltimes.cn/content/1025684.shtml

Mass graves found in eastern Aleppo, Russia claims - -> independent.co.uk/news/world … 96066.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OySdmuXZxpM

What the Assassination of the Russian Ambassador May Be Telling Us about Erdoğan’s Turkey - -> fpri.org/article/2016/12/ass … ns-turkey/

After Aleppo, now for a Syria-wide ceasefire, says Putin - -> thenational.ae/world/middle- … says-putin

US imposes sanctions against Syrian Central Bank chief, cabinet members - -> en.apa.az/azerbaijan-politics/do … mbers.html

Putin, Erdogan discuss Syria over phone - -> china.org.cn/world/2016-12/2 … 983851.htm

Turkey calls for air support in battle for Islamic State-held al Bab - -> news.sky.com/story/turkey-calls- … b-10707814

Benjamin Netanyahu faces ‘criminal investigation’ over fraud and bribery claims - -> independent.co.uk/news/world … 97016.html

Israel’s Netanyahu ‘snubs Theresa May’ over UK’s role in UN settlements vote - -> independent.co.uk/news/world … 96451.html

Israel Threatens to Give Trump ‘Iron-Clad’ Proof Obama Was Behind UN Vote - -> news.antiwar.com/2016/12/26/isra … d-un-vote/

Rebuffing Israel, U.S. Allows Censure Over Settlements - -> nytimes.com/2016/12/23/world … .html?_r=1


#1628

#1629

U.S. Special Operations Numbers Surge in Africa’s Shadow Wars - Nick Turse -> theintercept.com/2016/12/31/u-s … adow-wars/


#1630

Q&A on CaspianReport


#1631

sofrep.com/75921/open-skies-tre … -and-asia/

“Open Skies Treaty: U.S. and Russia to conduct dueling surveillance flights over Europe and Asia”

:angry:


#1632

Majority muslim country threatening EU country
BBC - Turkey’s Erdogan warns Dutch will pay price for dispute
The Netherlands will “pay the price” for harming ties after two Turkish ministers were barred from addressing Turkish expatriates in Rotterdam on Saturday, with one of them escorted to the German border. Mr Erdogan said: “We will teach them international diplomacy.”


#1633

Looks like the US is turning up the heat on NK

Sounds like some of the worst fears of a Trump Administration may be about to come true.


#1634

Is the US itching for a proxy war with China/Russia? XX


#1635

Could be…


#1636

This guy is speaking plenty of sense here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyRhUgTm80g


#1637

Russian special forces sent to back renegade Libyan general – reports - -> theguardian.com/world/2017/ … der-report

EU reaches out to Russia to broker deal with Libyan general Haftar - -> theguardian.com/world/2017/ … bya-tobruk

IS-held airport captured in Syria - -> sbs.com.au/news/article/2017 … ured-syria

State of Great Kurdistan to be Created in Syria and Iraq - -> en.insidesyriamc.com/2017/03/24 … -and-iraq/


#1638

US goes to war. Fires 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles on Homs airfield, Syria.
Putin says it is an ‘illegal act of aggression’.


#1639

This is crazy stuff. The media has been reporting with certainty that there was actually a chemical weapon attack, but at this stage it is just as likely to have been a release of chemicals from a bombed rebel weapons factory. Based on what information is available it is impossible to say one way or the other.

It seems to me that Trump is going to be led by the nose into making a lot of crazy decisions.


#1640

Trump is being led by “fake news” as opposed to the people? Doubt it.

He is doing this at the time of the Chinese Premier visiting. Pretty strategic to me. Hey, you going to help us with North Korea or not? What about that island you made. I don’t care about UN resolutions. Boom!

Brings the war mongers onside. Help me out with Health bill there. Oh, Ryan says Health before Tax, look over there, far away. Boom! Nunes? Boom! I bow to Russia? Boom!

Bigly.