payments to doctors

Unbelievable:

JUST UNBELIEVABLE

hse.ie/eng/staff/PCRS/PCRS_Publications/paymentstodoctors2010.pdf

Nobody in Ireland really cares. If you want to save €300m from the health service you give each of the clowns on this list €120K per year - to do their job and you have saved €300m of borrowing.

HSE Area Local Health Office Name
Fees and Allowance Excluding
Practice Support Total
Gross Amount including
Practice Support
South Western Dublin South West Andrew Jordan €844,906 €846,517
Northern Area Dublin North West Catherine Coleman €776,144 €843,294
Western Galway Michael Casey €680,153 €751,413
North Western Donegal Anthony Delap €618,111 €698,096
Northern Area Dublin North Anthony Crosby €606,029 €688,244
Western Galway John J. O’Reilly €337,572 €665,007
South Western Dublin West James Lee €442,504 €633,415
South Western Dublin South West Desmond P. Coady €546,679 €626,767
South Eastern Waterford Kevin Collins €463,093 €626,601
Southern North Cork Thomas J. Molloy €547,726 €620,205
Western Mayo Keith Swanick €533,640 €611,455
Western Mayo Michael Brendan Molloy €476,022 €604,008
South Eastern Wexford William Gerard Lynch €492,634 €603,450
North Eastern Cavan / Monaghan Tom Prior €501,897 €603,274
North Western Sligo / Letrim Sean Bourke €515,910 €596,438
Southern North Lee - Cork George O’Mahony €477,957 €593,002
Southern North Cork Patrick Gerard Burke €505,453 €583,498
Southern North Lee - Cork Tadg Grufferty €459,147 €582,952
North Western Donegal Paul Stewart €477,179 €564,485
Midland Laois / Offaly M. Honan €441,882 €559,388
South Eastern Wexford Stephen Bowe €492,074 €555,571
North Western Sligo / Letrim D. Loftus €484,697 €553,857
Midland Laois / Offaly Bernadette Scully €284,547 €549,818
Mid-Western Limerick Thomas K. Curtin €464,716 €548,063
Northern Area Dublin South East Austin O’Carroll €436,442 €542,934
Western Galway Raymond Piggott €320,704 €542,459
North Eastern Louth John Whately €447,863 €538,691
Northern Area Dublin North John Casey €433,573 €535,135
North Eastern Louth Shane Gleeson €453,109 €533,177
Northern Area Dublin North Mark Wheeler €423,097 €531,973
Midland Laois / Offaly Deirdre Honan €361,707 €530,869
East Coast Wicklow John Mc Manus €420,540 €529,199
Mid-Western Limerick Edmund O’Callaghan €430,240 €525,794
Mid-Western North Tipperary Paul O’ Carroll €447,119 €524,664
Western Mayo Sean Moffatt €435,109 €524,192

What are those payments actually for? What does it include?

It appears to be a list of GP’s that get the highest payments from the State for treating medical card patients

It’s not a list of GPs, it’s a list of practices. The practice I go to has at least 4 GPs, at least 1 practice nurse, a receptionist/administrator. It is on that list.

If you’re going to shoot, shoot straight…

Yogan - this is straighter than you think - there is fog of ‘costs’ - blah blah - ‘insurance’ blah blah etc. - but I’d bet a euro to your indignation that actual costs are less than 20% on average throughout the list - and are static - this is a gamed, badly designed system

  • call up a journalist, ask them to use a phone for one hour and write a two hundred word story on this. The problem is there are no journalists in Ireland the ‘groupthink’ capital of the world. State payments and state protection of protected professions is the real scandal of the state in Ireland. That along with the continued dominance of the parastatal sector.

Dude - you haven’t a fucking clue.

Do you know how much GPs have paid to buy into a partnership? Do you know that the list system is now gone? Do you know how much the government has cut from payments for medical card treatments?

You proposed to “give each of the clowns on this list €120K per year” and boasted that “you have saved €300m of borrowing.”

Not. A. Clue.

The anticompetitive changes should have a huge impact on GP costs in the medium term. Brought in thanks to da IMF and about time too.

I do think germanfred is right to question those payments. Even a practice with 4 docs and 2 support staff shouldn’t be getting half a mil from the government every year, on top of additional fees they charge public patients plus what they charge private patients. And I don’t give a sh*t how much the doctors paid to get into the partnership – their bad investment is their own problem.

It’s certainly worth analysing anyway.

They get a grant for this.

Perhaps a better question to ask would be is 850k a good price to pay for the treatment of x amount of medical card patients?

Surely this buying into a practice lark is the similar to buying into other restrictive practices - pubs, taxis (gone now thankfully), etc? i.e. an artificially controlled market?

Think one of those listed is in the news at the moment for some tragic reasons…

Well at least I have a vocabulary that goes beyond the invective.

Shame you waste it talking through your hole.

Pick some more numbers - use them without knowledge - and create some more savings there sham.

WGU, serious question – do you believe those payments are good value for money?

Wow - you really have a problem there - there is a lot more knowledge about the costs of some of those on the top of the list than you might think. Use your phone, and a simple web search. Ask how many doctors work in the practice and what hours. Figure out the cost’s yourself. Fact of the matter is that there are many Irish GP’s getting paid more than €120K per year out of the public purse.

Anything over €120K per year net of costs is too much, simple maths. You do realise that Ireland is bankrupt right?

If you look at these payments:

€284,547 €549,818

The most plausible explanation would be a new GP in the practice rather than a sudden outbreak of midlife enthusiasm for the healing arts.

In Canada, payments are given and listed separately for each GP. We manage to train fully independent GPs in two years post-medical school. It’s not THAT complicated.

Whatever the ins and outs of these payments - and, like any business, they don’t represent income - there is no doubt that GP compensation has massively increased in the last 15 years. A serious downward review is overdue. And do these guys get defined benefit pensions now? If so, cancel stat and replace with defined contribution.

Well spotted!!!

I have no idea how the figures breakdown generally.

I do know two of the GPs on the list who, up to two years ago, only did medical card patients (due to demographics) and had to buy into practices.

They have been majorly fucked over by the politicians and senior GPs with the slashing of rates for medical card payments and the abolition of the list system.

If they were any other small business their accountants would tell them to shut up shop - but they work locums, do on-call cover and do 90 hour-weeks to pay the mortgage.

I know another GP on the list who’s in a busy 4 GP practice who gave up a share in a multi-million pound partnership in the UK to move back to Ireland for family reasons. She’s on six figures here. She was on seven figures there.

I think the medical system is hugely expensive - and the numbers are mad - but that list has no meaning as it stands.

This is exactly how my doctor in Dublin works, one guy, walk into his practice, he’ll take payment answer phone etc. This would have been fairly standard years ago but guess its a dying art in Ireland all right!

I’m embarrassed for you.

You still can’t tell individual income from practice income.

Do yourself a favour and at least change the thread title to match the list you’re quoting - Payments to GP Practices.