Period house in Dublin 6 - Right time or not???

Why not wait for the 28,000+(and counting) mortgage’s in arrears to come to the end of their 1 year moratoriums and be called in.

There’s bound to be a few of them taken out on properties in a leafy suburb of your choice.

In fact maybe some of these properties have a few of these mortgages taken out on them.

It’s possible.

The vast majority of them will never be called in because the banks don’t want them back.

They’ll be re-scheduled. On the QT.

I disagree. I would guess that the majority of Dublin Victorian homes are rental units. These houses are not works of art. They are expensive to maintain, improve, refurbish and restore. Without such work they are uncomfortable to live in, if not downright unhealthy. The properties that are currently in multiple rental units will deteriorate because of the cost of maintenance over the next decade or two. Of course there is currently a premium for the location, but that assumes that in the future Dublin City will be an attractive place to live.

The redbricks will always had some unquantifiable premium for rarity value and the fact that they appeal to the artistic side of alot of people. Its not only Irish people that apply this premium…Its the same in well located 100+ year old homes the world over (Paris, London etc), its the same in the art market etc etc

That’s a great point. And if you look at the Q4 2009 DAFT report, even now, you’ll see that the “nicer areas” and family homes have lower rental yields (e.g. apartments in D15 vs 4 bed family homes in SCD). As does places like Chelsea and Manhattan.

However, we’re not Paris or London or close to it. We’re not even Zurich or Frankfurt. There are few Arab or Russian Billionaires who want to move here because they just simply “have to”. Manchester or Glasgow are good comparators -apart from the fact we’re a better stag/hen night destination. have more Irish-American tourists and had more famous writers. Plus U2 and Colin Farrell spend a few weeks here now and then.

We simply don’t have large swathes of true upper-class or even upper-middle class jobs. In 2006, at the height of the boom, only 11,000 households in Ireland made >275K in taxable income. We have no large domestic corporates with 100+K salaried middle managements based here. Our legal market is small and almost totally domestic. IFSC Finance is mostly back-office stuff paying a fraction of what the real bankers in the City make. Places like Google, MS, Dell, Paypal etc have service headquarters here with the real people (e.g. VPs) running the show working from California or London. etc, etc, etc, etc.

For a country our size- we also have very little true “old money” - we’ve traditionally been poor and most of our millionaires/aristocracy moved to the larger canvas of London (e.g. the Guinnesses) as did a good proportion of professionals during the 20th century (until the 1970s - 2/3 of Irish qualified doctors emigrated!! That’s why D6 was full of bedsits until lately.

There isn’t just the real earning power to support many “Million Dollar Homes” here. Especially if they’re just 1400 sq foot “treasures”.

Agreed. The new rental legislation will get rid of many bedsits (bathrooms etc. required); with downward pressure on rents any redbricks that do change hands will revert to family homes-

For these redbricks houses in bedsit condition to change hand, they will have to go for a signifcantly lower price than other properties in the area.

The reason i say this is because the money to renovate these houses is not around.

For example opening poster:

€630k mortgage approval + €190k saving.
Assuming this is the house, and there offer is accepted.
myhome.ie/residential/brochu … n-6/203233

Of the €190k the opening poster has in the bank, at least half of this will go on deposit and stamp duty leaving €90k to gut a house in units and make it a family home. Even in a recession it would cost the guts of €150k to make a house in bedsits into something that you can call a home.

Yes exactly.

I’m sure the bank employees will reschedule these loans on penal terms on the QT,so as not to expose the extent of pressure they put on their borrowers

Their bosses will be so proud of them,they may even allow the to keep their jobs.

They should write of this debt, as they were allowed to do themselves (on our money).

A roof over your head became overated when it exceeded €500 per month.

I agree with a lot of the earlier posts about the supply of redbricks that are currently in bedsits. One good thing to do is pick a street that you like and walk down it counting the renovated versus the besdits. For example prestigious Palmerston Road still has a 50% run down buildings ratio after a 10+ year housing frenzy. There is no shortage of dumps to renovate. There is aso an aged community in these areas.

Recent articles in the Irish Times have talked about the difficulty in getting finance for a renovation job. Banks really prefer safe non complicated houses to lend on. I guess you need to be in a very strong position to get finance on a large bedsit in D6…who is in this position?

The sellers want to hang on in hope that finance returns, but as they do the equity in trader uppers homes is disappearing so the trader uppers ability to finance stamp and refurbishment works is disappearing. Unless wreckless lending returns these houses can not achieve 1+mm price tags. AIB just stuck another half a percent on to the variable rate, another blow against very levered borrowing.

If you want to buy and I can genuinely understand that home ownership is preferable to renting in terms of comfort and quality of life for some people, then bid extremely low.

not the Victorian elegance some have in mind

daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=840802

Palmerston Road, Rathmines, Dublin 6, South Dublin City
795 Monthly

2 Bedrooms (2 twin), 1 Bathroom

no photo with this but
1600 a month for 4 bed…
daft.ie/searchrental.daft?id=867668&search=1

Sometimes you can forget what a real interest rate looks like (5.5%).
Now, it may very well be 4-5 years before we get there
but one of these fine days reality will come a knocking.

hsh.com/calc-amort.html
Principal = $630000
Interest Rate = 5.5%
Amortization Period = 30 Years
Starting Month = Jan
Starting Year = 2010++
Your monthly payment will be $ 3577.07
The following mortgage would result for 2010

  • Jan: Principal: $ 689.57 Interest: $ 2887.50 Balance: $ 629310.43
  • Feb: Principal: $ 692.73 Interest: $ 2884.34 Balance: $ 628617.70
  • Mar: Principal: $ 695.91 Interest: $ 2881.16 Balance: $ 627921.79
  • Apr: Principal: $ 699.10 Interest: $ 2877.97 Balance: $ 627222.70
  • May: Principal: $ 702.30 Interest: $ 2874.77 Balance: $ 626520.40
  • Jun: Principal: $ 705.52 Interest: $ 2871.55 Balance: $ 625814.88
  • Jul: Principal: $ 708.75 Interest: $ 2868.32 Balance: $ 625106.12
  • Aug: Principal: $ 712.00 Interest: $ 2865.07 Balance: $ 624394.12
  • Sep: Principal: $ 715.26 Interest: $ 2861.81 Balance: $ 623678.86
  • Oct: Principal: $ 718.54 Interest: $ 2858.53 Balance: $ 622960.32
  • Nov: Principal: $ 721.84 Interest: $ 2855.23 Balance: $ 622238.48
  • Dec: Principal: $ 725.14 Interest: $ 2851.93 Balance: $ 621513.34

Completely agree. I heard the head of the German Central Bank on TV lately. Those guys are serious about jacking interest rates up mercilessly the moment there’s a whiff of inflation- Ireland, Greece and their unemployment rates bedamned. Seem to think that 4% inflation would bring back Hitler. They’re a creditor nation and don’t have a lot of people exposed to big mortgages and loans for their Mercs.

And that’s before us punters are hit with variable interest rates in order to help our national treasures (AIB/BOI/etc) all “rebuild their balance sheets”

Heartfelt thanks to you all for your advice given. I cannot believe the extent of knowledge and willingness to share same on this site. Am so glad we found it at the weekend when worrying about making an offer on a house this week, which we absolutely won’t be doing now. Jesus I feel like we’ve been talked down off a cliff. Our worry about prices going up seems to be the last thing anyone here believes will happen and offering 50% less than asking, seriously would never have dreamt of it. We will now. Was getting way too emotional bout the whole thing. Gonna do some school and rental research over the next while and see how we go. Thanks again.

irishtimes.com/newspaper/fin … 44859.html

So now prices in South Dublin City have actually risen this quarter, by 1.1% granted, but it’s still a rise. So what’s all that about then? What’s going on? Call me crazy but despite all the posters many, many very valid arguments here, I have this strange gnawing feeling that this will continue. Yes, I must be crazy! But economics is a crazy, irrational subject at the best of times and housing economics has proved to be the craziest, most irrational, most emotional of all. Now I’m certain that I’m going to hear some extremely good arguments how this can not and will not be the case, but you know something, I’ve been around a bit and for quite a while now I only get surprised when I haven’t been surprised, if you get my meaning. So let me say this; I would be surprised, like everybody else on this forum I’m sure, if property prices in South Dublin City rise in 2010 and continue to do so yearly for the next five years.

That’s asking prices Freddie.

Yup, it would probably only take one big house to come on the market to bump up the asking prices by 1% no?

Everything about this post sounds like you’re in control of things, I got a lift reading it. Your whole situation sounds like a fundamentally comfortable and secure and powerful one. Keep that in mind and don’t let the environment get in on you.

Freddie…which are you… a mark or a shill?

Just out of interest, like.

Goddamit Dirtysquatter, is it that obvious!!! Yes it’s true, I went and bought South Dublin and now I’m trying to flog bits of it off…I could have stuck that big swinging sucker for 800 grand…easy!

…If it wasn’t for you pesky kids…

houses in sth dublin are selling. I am renting and tryinto to buy in 6/6w/14 area and most of the houses that I am going to see are selling, they are also starting to sell for more than thier asking prices. OK before anyone jumps at me there are houses that are way over priced and are not going to meet thir asking price but if you look at the amount of people going to viewings, then there are several bids, then it sells. To counter my argument there are at least 10 houses still for sale that I viewed 6 months ago and about another 10 that sold for less than thier asking price. To sum up there are people out there with money who either dont need a mortgage or are ready to go and if it is the house that they want they are willing to pay for it, weither its the right price or over the odds.

How do you know what they sold for?

Ive been to tonnes of viewings involving a full house of viewers. Houses are still on the market. I see that houses that come on the market at the right price are snapped up. But thats few and far between?