Petrol to exceed €1.50 per litre by the new year?


Bad Bad Bad on the Greens to be spreading the philosophy that peat is not a “renewable”.
Sure in Finland peat is a renewable. Why not here?
Then we’d be over our 20% renewable target in one go.

Clever thinking there? Ha? NOT for the Civil Cervants of their servile politicians.

On a complete aside I think that Joan Burton got the boot because she was actually having a mind to carry out what she had been talking about. After a quick discussion with the Secretary General bosses of certain depts I think the message was being given to Enda and Eamonn (I’m going to call them the Easy Boys ™ from now on) that certain personalities were just not going to cut it for a position in such an office. No sir eeee.


I saw 160.9 per litre for unleaded this morning.

That’s the highest I’ve ever seen I think.


My first €100 tank of petrol isn’t far off. :frowning:

Was it 2008 when it was 97.9p a litre in places? Serious jump there.


Here’s Whizzbang’s site, has historical info on it:


Depends how long you’re prepared to wait for your renewal cycle. For peat, it’s a few thousand years, for coal, several million.
Both are significantly more renewable than solar, for which the recycling time is several billion, unless you orbit an O or B class supergiant, in which case it could be as little as a few million before it goes supernova. Of course, you’d never have had time to evolve enough to have developed a coherent energy policy at all in that case…


Thanks. So 1 Feb 2009 - three years ago just - petrol was 99.9p on average, and diesel 98.9p. Today, it’s more than 50% higher. I know it’s kind of selfish to complain about price increases given that it’s still ridiculously cheap (I like Clarkson’s comment that they have to invade some country, dig miles under the ground, splut the stuff into barrels, ship it around the world, pay fines whenever it spills and then pay huge taxes and yet it still costs less than what Coca Cola charge for turning on the tap and filling a bottle of water) and that it has a role in a fair chunk of world instability, but still.


I was thinking about this the other day.

If we assume the average driver does 10,000 miles per annum.
That’s less than 30 miles per day.

If every car had enough battery power to last it 30 miles, then you would probably cut the need to use petrol/diesel on over 90% of all car journeys.

So how many batteries would be necessary to power 30 miles ?


The oil companies do all of that for about 40 or 50 cent a litre. The Government charge you the balance.

#89 iMiEV

Then there are the hybrids. Cost of the battery packs are mental though, and will last a max of 7 years. Fast charging points shorten the life even more.

This is a nice one, if you are being unpatriotic, and keeping money in the bank.

How are these in the real world?? Well …

And in the real real world(ish)


Would ya stop that pernicious shite. The durty secret is that after a few trillion years it’s all over for new star formation. We’re standing around doing nothing while the universe becomes toast. Shockin’!


Why is anyone surprised that the price continues to rise? The US military is the 9th largest consumer of oil in the world and they along with NATO and EUFOR (remember the Irish army expedition in Chad) have been touring the world to steal oil resources, or in politically correct terms “spreading democracy”. None of these adventures is self funding and is paid with new money issued by the central banks with the re-payments spread over the years covered by the taxpayer. Then to compound it Egypt became a net oil importer, the population rioted and riots spread across the middle east. The Saudi royal family had to bribe their population to keep them quiet and is expanding it’s own consumption of oil, but is not expanding production (see the export land model). Then there is the boycott of Iran which means less supply for much of Europe, just as well for us that Britain and France, Germany and Italy bought democracy to Libya.

Over the past decade, we built lots of new roads that get us from one traffic bottleneck to the next much quicker, this has to be paid for. Along the way we left one religion for another, so we erected wind turbines to worship the new God and we pay a religious tithe in the form of carbon tax so that Gaia won’t smite us with deadly CO2. More sacrifices will be needed. What a surprise then since the boom ended and cost of motoring is up, that road traffic is down, the state transport companies are running at a loss and are subsidised and borrow money to keep afloat (where does this borrowed money come from and what effect does it have on transport and energy prices?) Almost all our energy is imported, think about that before we declare bankruptcy.

Then there is Fukushima and its effect on Japan and Germany on nuclear energy production, they need more oil and gas to make up the difference, with Japan encountering it’s first trade deficit in a long time. The cold snap on the European continent will also drive up their consumption of energy. China has also had a mad infrastructure boom and the Chinese car market is the worlds largest, they’ll take every drop of oil they can lay their hands on.

On the supply side there are new oil projects in development and the high price has made recovery of oil in existing fields commercially viable, but, these are much costlier undertakings so the ERoIE is reduced.


Ultimately, we need to be reconfiguring out economy to use less motor fuel, simple as that! (or not)
Things to do, for example;
Building towns and cities (suburbs) that have mixed use zoning, just like all towns did before the advent of personal transport.
Link these areas together with an efficient public transport system (eg trams)
Extensive use of rail (or road train) to transport goods around.
Encourage local production and consumption where possible.
Build houses as clumped units employing the best insulation and heating/cooling systems available.
Replace consumer goods with durable goods.

These steps would delay the decline of oil for a generation or more, these things won’t happen until after it’s gone of course, when there is no choice at all.


battery prices are falling all the time, and battery life is getting better every year

there are toyota rav 4 electric cars with over 100k miles and almost ten years on the road, with no battery problems

there will be a price cross over point soon enough, maybe sooner than we think

fisker will go bust soon IMO, the Tesla model S will kill them


Heading to $200 per kWh … slas-elon/

An EV with a 50 miles/80 km range would need around an 18-20kWh battery. (Variables are vehicle/battery weight)


Nissan LEAF is electron guzzler and does 100mi on 24kWh, Renault fluence can do this on 22kWh and i-Miev only needs 16kWh. There is also fast charging in Ireland, so I would also use EV for going distances up to 500km.


@September, How is the Leaf working out? Is it as good as you hoped?


In Ireland anyway, when we get up to 500km, there’s no reason to go back to petrol or diesel anymore.


If too many people start driving EVs they’ll start looking at taxing them more, so I would advise people to stick with their petrol/diesel cars. :wink:

Better source of that Simpsons Electric car of the future (“sponsored by the gasoline produces of America”) clip.


It occurs to me that the recent spike in price of petrol and diesel has been down to the fall in the Euro. Expect similar rises in cost of nat gas and electricity then. The forthcoming take off in the cost of energy will be in large part due to the monetization of debt and subsequent drop in the euro. I dont expect energy to get that much more expensive in real terms over the next 30 years. That doesn’t mean we will have much access to much of it though
So it doesnt matter if we try to run our cars on natural gas or coal or anything else. We’re in the process of going broke. Aside from that, the only reason for going with less efficient electric cars is tax avoidance, which will probably be cancelled once the government introduces pay per km travelled, instead of fuel duty and road tax, to catch the EVs and car sharers.


I would assume that you mean once the government introduces pay per km travelled and road tax, instead of fuel duty and road tax.
Pretty inevitable that it will happen as soon as electric vehicles become a genuine alternative to internal combustion powered vehicles.