Please read before you drop


Cheerleading the crash

Dear friends,

It is apparent that over the past few months, certain users have stepped over the bounds of good taste. Property and people’s homes are a serious subject and whilst the 'pin will do its utmost to retain a light and humourous take on the Irish property scene, users must discuss price drops and other associated topics with suitable decorum.

Specifically, what we are asking users to do, is before they post, to remind themselves of that reality.

The impacts of the Irish Property Bubble are very real. We live them every day and it cannot be denied that at every echelon of the Bubble, there is pain, both personal and financial and that things are likely to get worse in the short to medium term.

Therefore, when discussing price drops, please keep the commentary to matters of fact and avoid hyperbole. Do not comment on possible hardship, etc., and in general, put your comments in a sympathetic light where possible.

For the lifespan of the bubble, and I think I speak for the majority of users here, we decried the spin & rhetoric that was associated with the bubble by the vested interests, those who cheerleaded the “boom”.

It is important now, that the 'pin users take a balanced approach to discussing the outcomes of the property boom / bust in this country and in doing this, contribute to building a real public consciousness of the risks and benefits of property. The best buffer that could possibly be created to prevent the financial pressures associated with boom / bust from repeating into the future.

We are not here to cheerlead the crash but rather to illuminate, to provide balanced discussion and to help prevent another property bubble from occurring in the future.

Best Regards,

Admin -


Yeah ok, but there’s no need to get all defensive all of a sudden cos some poor EA got a little cheesed off. Just cos there’s a bit of legal posturing going on doesn’t mean we all have to behave differently. Peacocks come to mind. Nobody’s doing anything illegal on the site so there’s nothing to worry about. As you said yourself, what goes on off-site is beyond your control.

To be quite honest, I find it a bit rich for any EA to be giving out about “EA baiting” considering the kind of “customer baiting” that has undoubtedly gone on in their self-“regulated” industry for the last couple of years - surely this is part of the job, the same way Mrs. Jones comes in enquiring about her neighbour’s property - it’s all the same time that’s being wasted at the end of the day. Take it on the chin and move on. Anyway, it’s too late now, the show’s over, the money is teeing off from the Algarve as we sit here, and there’s no point in getting bitter over the enevitable. The whole “fiasco” is a stupid, mildly entertaining discourse.

I sincerely hope the EA in question doesn’t get any more baiting phone calls.


A “non-glee” policy was in the works prior to the little kerfuffle the other day.

It merely re-inforced the decision to go ahead with it.

I don’t think it’s a defensive posture, rather it’s about attempting to create and maintain the best possible atmosphere for all users to come and contribute.

Maybe we won’t get it right.


No, I think you’re right. Best make the rules. It is your creation after all and is worth protecting.


Its important to keep the momentum and is going to be hard to keep it all together but it will be the posters who make it work and so far I say its going well considering we have had the lighest of moderating and no rules as such. On the rules issue this will change. We shall have them up soon enough.

We hope to keep the moderation as hands off as possible. However I think its natural that you will see moderation a bit more with increase traffic, thats to be expected.

There is no end goal here on the pin, there is no trophy to be won. Merely the expansion of peoples access to useful info.

I feel that the taking of “glee” from the potential hardship or otherwise of what are essentially people, is not to be entertainted.

I know many people, close & far to me that will in the event of mega-implosion be hit directly or indirectly and many I believe who are not in the property game don’t even realise the extent to which it could effect them potentially.

So I am for one not wishing on harm on anyone but when specualtive bubble gets out of hand and become abnormal (or some would argue are its normal behaviour!) we all could be in a pickle.

Thats why we have to hope it never happens again. In the long term its of now use. Looks at what its done so far, it has ecojnomically divided people even further & further.


Without making any pro-glee statements, I’m at a loss to see why glee is any less valid an emotion than despair/compassion at house price falls.

In any market transaction there are two diametrically opposed participants: the short seller and the buyer. When one is gleeful, the other suffers. That is how the system works, and the only way it can work, unless one subscribes to some variant of Marxism.

It makes sense for there to be a forum for those who are gleeful at the prospect of the market moving in the direction in which they need it to.

Cruelty or harsh words are naturally unacceptable, but it’s in the nature of financial debate for bulls and bears to loudly make their case, and for the market itself to decide which species will win the day


We haven’t precluded people making their case strongly.

But the 'pin is not a one ideology site either, it’s a forum.

Where anyone, bull or bear, can hopefully come and make their case and debate the facts of Irish property.

The incidents of “glee”, and they’ve been relatively few in just under 7000 posts, are just not in the spirit of what we’re trying to facilitate here.

Is that clear enough?

Nobody is precluded from discussing a price drop, just think about what you are saying.

I’ve been as guilty as anyone of a flippant comment here and there but what makes this forum a little different to any other forum I’ve ever been on, is that we are talking absolute financial pain for someone somewhere.

For every seller, there’s a buyer who’s happy to have gotten of a property, for every buyer, there’s a seller who thinks they’ve made a killing.

Real people are getting and are going to get hurt.

And that’s why we need to try as best we can to discuss these things compassionately where we touch on the individual.


The problem is this - anyone at all who has been waiting for property prices to drop will automatically get accused of glee or Schadenfreude - owing to the cost of people realising that their fantasy is just a fantasy and property rises don’t always rise. We’ve already seen in here I think. No one likes to find out that they were in fact wrong.

That being said, a little common sense on both sides would be helpful. We know people are going to take a hit with any sort of a correction and with any sort of an economic downturn. I won’t celebrate it because they’ll be maybe taking the rest of us down with them. However, I would justifiably feel that a little recognition of their own responsibility in their predicament - property prices wouldn’t be the way they are if people had been rational about buying property - wouldn’t go astray.

I won’t dance on your negative equity, say, but you might want to recognise that the reason you’re in negative equity has a lot to do with decisions you made, not decisions I made.


The real decision was made by the bank, of course.

If a bank offers a hobo a €1m mortgage, he will take it. I call that irresponsible lending, not a “poor decision” on the part of the hobo.

But for all the pain which those who hit negative equity might suffer, there is another point; they have also inflicted pain over the last several years by contributing to the over-inflation of house prices.

As inflicters of pain, I think it’s valid if some of those who suffered pain as a result of the price inflation they created (i.e: those who cannot afford to buy) were to express some glee at the turning of the tide.

These people used to inflict pain, and if the market turns down they won’t be inflicting pain any more. That’s a valid cause for glee, in my opinion.

But hey, it’s your site. I’m just saying that people who feel glee at a possible downturn aren’t necessarily monsters.


When it comes to irresponsible lending, I’ve the following to say:

yes the banks are collectively responsible for diluting lending criteria and they should take the rap. But no one is forced to take that loan. I certainly didn’t, and I know other people who didn’t. In other words, people who take out huge loans cannot solely blame the bank for lending them that money.

They borrowed it. No one held a gun to their heads and forced them to sign on the dotted line for 400KE at historically low interest rates rising faster than their salary does. That responsibility exists and should not be avoided.


Nobody said anybody who is happy that the market is turning is a monster.


True, I’m just sayin’…


I’d add: I won’t dance on your negative equity, if you won’t go running to the State to look for a bailout using my money.