Precious metals (Gold, Silver etc) hitting new highs.


#61

Spoken like a true believer :smiley:


#62

Yes I BELIEVE. “I feel much better now I’ve given up HOPE” (Woody Allen)
Remember there was no Media awareness on the run up to $50 so that phase is just starting. It’s just starting to get interesting.
Here’s 1979 again
picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/D … bedwebsite

The reason these markets are leveraged is to control them, the big boys have all the cash and they can destroy smaller investors at will. Margin calls were the main reason for the Wall Street Crash.


#63

There is no conspiracy, CME is protecting itself. Again it is Risk Mgmt. They are not out to destroy the small investor, yes those how overleveraged and cannot meet their responsibilities or committements will be forced to meet them.
They had to raise requirements because traders were getting irrational and driving up prices, the CME needed to protect themselves or face default…
The traders themselves were getting overleveraged. Look at the increase in Volume since silver started to rise.
CME raised the amount you required on deposit in your account to meet your obligations…
When you open a futures account you sign up to the rules of the game and the regulations…
They dont just make them up as they go along… They tell you up front what to expect, if you are dumb enough to overleverage your account then tough shxx…
The mkts are leveraged because the particapants demand more bang for their buck… Customers requested these products so they got them…

The CME went into Survival Mode because the long side of the bet was overleveraged and they were afraid that traders would not be able to meet their obligations if the trade went against them…

Whether we are in 1979 or whatever is a total different debate… The debate im having is that there is no conspiracy crap…
Ever had a Margin Call Egg Beater?
What security (s)?


#64

No, I’ve never had a margin call but then I would never enter an investment arena like this. Don’t get me wrong I think Silver is a super investment but the way it is traded is fundamentally flawed. I own Silver and will continue to hold my position. I’m happy enough with profits from my hard earned paper and don’t need to get involved in one sided games. Gold and Silver are money, the only real money. The paper mongers hate it for that reason. Time will tell.


#65

Why is Silver Hated by the PTB
Silver and The Wonderful Wizard of Oz

The Wonderful Wizard of Oz was first published in Chicago in 1900. Its author, L. Frank Baum, was the editor of a South Dakota newspaper and a supporter of William Jennings Bryan who stood three times, unsuccessfully, as a U.S. Presidential candidate for the Democratic Party.

The particular concern of both Baum and Bryan was the nature of the money supply then prevalent in the United States, and in the Mid-Western States in particular.

In America during the 1890s, as in Britain, there had been a severe depression. Many businesses had gone bankrupt, farmers forced to sell up, factories closed and workers made unemployed. True, some farms in the Mid-West were suffering from drought, but most were still capable of growing food; the businesses and factories were still capable of providing the things that people needed; the workers still wanted to work to provide those things, and people would still want the goods and services produced if they had the money to buy them.

The money in the USA then, as now, was entirely created by the private banking system. The pretence existed then that money was based on gold. (Even now some people still think that it is!) The major banks, based on the East and West coasts, could vary the amount of money in circulation, lending more to encourage commercial activity, then fore-closing on loans to put people out of business, enabling the banks to acquire their businesses cheaply.

Baum and Bryan wanted money to be based on silver, not gold, as silver was more readily available in the Mid-West, where it was mined. Such a money supply could not be manipulated by the banks. So the story of the Wizard of Oz starts with a cyclone in the form of imagined electoral success for Bryan…

Dorothy, a sort of proverbial ‘Everywoman’, lands on the Wicked Witch of the East (the East-coast bankers), killing her, so freeing the Munchkins, the down-trodden poor, but the Wicked Witch of the West (the West-coast bankers) remains loose.

To deal with her and to get back to Kansas (normality), the Good Witch of the North, representing the electorate of the North (this is less than 40 years after the civil war), tells Dorothy to seek out the Wizard of Oz (‘oz’ being short for ounce, the means of weighing both gold and silver). She also gives her a pair of silver slippers (as they were in the book - they became ruby ones in the film). Only these silver slippers will enable her to remain safe on the yellow-brick road, representing the bankers’ gold standard, as she heads towards the Emerald City, representing Washington DC.

On her journey, Dorothy encounters a Scarecrow, representing the farmers, who do not have the wit to understand how they can end up losing their farms to the banks, even though they work hard to grow the food to feed a hungry nation. If only they could think it through!

Next, she encounters a Tin Woodsman, representing the industrial workers, rusted as solid as the factories of the 1890s depression, and who have lost the sense of compassion and co-operation to work together to help each other during hard times. Also, a spell cast upon him by the Wicked Witch of the East meant that every time he swung his axe, he chopped off a bit of himself - he downsized!

Then the growing party encounters a Cowardly Lion, representing the politicians. These have the power, through the power of Congress and the Constitution, to confront the Wicked Witches, representing the banks, but they lack the courage to do so.

Dorothy is able to motivate these three potent forces and leads them all towards the Emerald City, whence ‘greenbacks’ had once come, and an encounter with the omnipotent and wonderful Wizard of Oz.

The Wizard of Oz is initially quite majestic and apparently awesome, but he turns out to be a little man without the power that people assume he possesses. He does, of course, represent the President of the United States. With the Wizard’s illusion of power shattered, he is replaced by the Scarecrow who would ‘be another Lincoln’.

The Wicked Witch of the West, fearful for her own power, then attempts to destroy Dorothy but is herself dissolved in a bucket of water, as rain relieves the Mid-West drought, saves the farmers’ livelihoods and prevents repossession by the banks.

The Good Witch of the South, representing the Southern electorate, tells Dorothy that her silver slippers, silver-based money, are so powerful that anything she wishes for is possible, even without the help of the Wizard. Dorothy wishes to go home. There all is now well, because the land has a stable and abundant money supply.


#66

What

The

Fuck


#67

Well done sir, great to see an Arts degree used in anger every now & again :slight_smile:

This adds a whole new layer to the Pink Floyd thing.


#68

What, about drugs fucking you up so badly that you won’t ever see anything straight again?


#69

Just click your heels together 3 times and say ‘Theres no place like silver … theres no place like silver’.


#70

It’s strange, but true.


#71

Great programme on BBC4 recently on Baum and Oz

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oz_books

There’s a whole series of books that he must have been writing in allegory:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oz_books

The story behind the allegory:

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/7933175.stm


#72

I’m not smart enough to write The Story Behind the Wizard of OZ here’s a link
moneyreformparty.org.uk/mone … _of_oz.php Scroll to the bottom for some JFK Silver Stuff.
Pink Floyd as dead right, Money is the root of all Evil, (Especially when those with complete control of it’s expansion and contraction are Depraved).
And College drugs do screw you up for a while but it’s not permanent like Anti Depressants.

And if you think that all this is still not pertinent today have a quick scour on the internet about Libya looking to introduce the Gold Dinar. A bit strange don’t you think, rebels open a central bank in the first days of war.


#73

#74

I love all of these nay-sayers coming out saying Gold and Silver are in a bubble without offering an alternative.

Holes can be picked in every investment class.

So lets have a suggestion Yogan as you seem to be the ringleader of those who will be left behind… in squalor!


#75

An alternative to what?

You are looking at currency as a means of exchange through the lens of the Irish disaster. Not everywhere is stuffed.

edit: looking to gain by capital appreciation is speculation. I don’t do speculation.


#76

:open_mouth: :open_mouth:
I went looking at false-flags-9-11 or something similar the other day at the (sarcastic) suggestion of someone on the 'Pin - however this thread is becoming almost as amusing (or deranged).

Oh here it is:
(911falseflag.com - brew a good strong cuppa first - it has lots of fascinating utterly loony claims to peruse)


#77

A few things. Firstly, gold and silver don’t generate returns by themselves. Bonds have coupon payments, stocks have dividends and even property has rental income. Gold and silver on the other hand are purely speculative., you’re relying on the Greater Fool theory that somebody will buy it from you for more than you paid. Another thing, when you see the price of a speculative asset go parabolic (Irish property, tech-stocks, tulips, etc.), that should be a warning sign to anyone that you’re in bubble territory. Silver, for what appears for speculative reasons just decided to go up multiples of itself on no new news. Whatever about gold reaching new prices highs, what happened with silver is completely ridiculous (why not have platinum, palladium, diamonds, etc. go parabolic too?). Retail investors playing speculative markets like this are lambs being led to the slaughter by Wall Street.


#78

“Firstly, gold and silver don’t generate returns by themselves.”
Yes they do, Gold and silver can be lent out and therefore generate returns, same as interest on deposits.

“Bonds have coupon payments, stocks have dividends and even property has rental income. Gold and silver on the other hand are purely speculative.”
Wrong, getting tired of explaining silvers industrial uses at this stage, if you want to pretend they don’t exist then no point in stating it again. Investing in PM’s also means investing in mining companies, they have dividends. Also, what’s the point in investing in bonds that will be wiped out with inflation by the time they mature.

“Silver, for what appears for speculative reasons just decided to go up multiples of itself on no new news. Whatever about gold reaching new prices highs, what happened with silver is completely ridiculous (why not have platinum, palladium, diamonds, etc. go parabolic too?)”

Yes the recent surge in silver was ridiculous and there was bound to be a correction but this is a much longer term bull market than just the last few months, the speculators are trying to cash in on the bull market, they are not driving the bull market, we may even see a further correction before the upward prices resume.


#79

In the real world - how many people actually do that? Also, what about the costs of storage/security of protecting your metal? Please give me an example where a retail investor can make a meaningful return from lending their gold.

This has nothing to do with stocks or industrial uses. I am purely talking about holding the physical metal in order to get a return.

Again, no investment hypothesis from a metals bull. All I hear is vague talk of the gold/silver ratio, QE, and a long-term bull market. You might as well be using the same argument for Irish property.


#80

“In the real world - how many people actually do that? Also, what about the costs of storage/security of protecting your metal? Please give me an example where a retail investor can make a meaningful return from lending their gold.”
I didn’t say lots of people do it, you stated that Gold and silver cannot generate returns, I just demonstrated that they can. Paper money doesn’t generate an income directly either, put a bundle of it in the safe and I’m pretty sure the same amount will be there when you come back for it.

“This has nothing to do with stocks or industrial uses. I am purely talking about holding the physical metal in order to get a return.”
Of course it has to do with stocks and industrial uses, you cannot just throw away all the good reasons for owning PM’s and say what else have you got to back up your argument.

“Again, no investment hypothesis from a metals bull. All I hear is vague talk of the gold/silver ratio, QE, and a long-term bull market. You might as well be using the same argument for Irish property”
So you don’t like the arguments being given, industrial uses, investing in mining stocks, creation of FIAT currency on a grand scale, so you just choose to ignore them and call them vague, WTF?. What has Irish property got to do with the 3 things I just stated?

Eventually PM’s will drop significantly in price just like every other economic cycle, someone people will loose their shirts and others will make a fortune and others will ride the ups and downs and hang on in the long term which is what most gold bugs, not speculators, will do. Answer this question honestly, if you were presented with a choice, to hold your wealth in a FIAT denominated investment that couldn’t be redeemed for 50 years, say a US government bond with a coupon that’s less than inflation or the equivalent amount of gold/silver, what would you take?

For the record, I own very little pm’s, but how people can choose to ignore all the valid reasons for holding it astounds me, whether you like it or not it has value, from jewelery to industry, it has done for millennia and will continue to for the foreseeable future, FIAT currencies will come and go.