Presidential Election 2018 Poll


#41

There is truth in that. First off as I’ve said before I agree with Casey that travelers aren’t an ethnic minority, they’re defined more by their economic status within society. The whole ethnic thing is a sham that I’m not sure they themselves fully ascribe too, it’s more the identity politics of settled people.

The itinerant worker (tinker) was a part of the Irish rural economy right up until the 70s, I can still remember the last of the seasonal travellers parking up at my grandmothers house at a specific time every year. I think somewhere in the 1880s a seasonal itinerant married in and so a familial link was maintained. Granddad had been a farrier and they’d come to him. The last of the annual tinkers were very elderly then, but still got around with an ass drawn carriage, I was always excited when they came. I remember seeing Wonderly Wagon on TV and thinking how silly it was compared to the real thing.

The year they stopped coming my grandmother looked out the window waiting for months after they’d been due. I guess that was the end of that way of life when that seasonal economy finally ended. When my mother was really sick we had a traveller woman look after us while my father worked. When my mother was better I wanted to go visit the traveler woman who minded us but one day we turned up and the caravan had moved on. As a child I felt bereft. I have nothing but warm fond memories of her kindness. For me them = us.

Even up til its closure 50% of the scrap metal taken in at the Irish Steel works in Cork was from travelers. There is no doubt that there are some who use the transience of the traveler life as a cover for criminal activity, but it’s also unfair to tar (pardon the pun) those who try to retain their economic tradition peacefully as it was the bedrock of their familial life. Settled travellers have transitioned to modern agriculture and if you’re ever on the Canterbury Plains in New Zealand during the harvest campaign you’ll meet loads of settled Irish travellers subcontracted in for a good few months each year. To some locals girls snagging one of these jetsetters is a prize catch! Plus Trotting which is like sulky racing is a popular mainstream sport there! Don’t be so quick to assume all their new cars are gifts of the state or crime. Some travellers have swapped the ass and carriage for transcontinental airplanes.

Ironically thanks to commuting while the travellers are settling, the settled are travelling! I might even settle down some decade soon. It seems very frivolous to laud Casey for saying what’s been said all the time. Their traditional economy was part of our economy, some adapted, others struggled and some failed. But we can’t blame them for the failure of their economy, imagine how we’d cope if our way of life suddenly withdrew from us.


#42

If Casey does poll 20 or 30% the established political class will regard it as nothing more than a near miss. It will not start a nation conversation over entitlements and transfers of tax from net tax payers to net social welfare recipients. The latter will be bought of with another €5 per week at the next budget.

There might be a newspaper opinion piece or two in the paper the week after but the media largely sings the Uber liberal PC tune.


#43

Not true. Listen out anytime Pavee Point are on the TV/radio or indeed any Traveller is on. They all loudly proclaim their newly acknowledged ethnic status, saying it’s something they have fought over for years


#44

TBH I am not too worried about whether or not we have conversation about entitled travellers and dole scroungers.

I hope it prompts a discussion about the fact it is ok to have views that are contrary to the accepted narrative, and that politicians, media, talking heads and assholes on twitter etc should not shame and bully people for angering the thought police.

In short by all means disagree with me, reason with me, persuade me of your argument, please do try and change my mind with informed and rationale debate but please f*cking stop telling me what to think!

There is a lot more to Casey’s momentum than a disregard for travellers.


#45

Pavee point are not all travellers. The unions don’t speak for all workers.

When do all travellers meet up to make proposals to the Pavee Point agenda?

Do you actually know any travellers personally?

I do and they certainly don’t consider themselves as a separate ethnic group to us. Did it ever occur to you that such advocacy groups have their own funding agenda?


#46

If Higgins wins on the first count do they bother redistributing his surplus and counting transfers?

Also. What the fuck is wrong with you people? Elect this cunt as ceremonial head of state because you feel oppressed by travellers and the most extreme elements of the American left?

Apologies for the language.


#47

If course Miggledy will win. Miggledy is fairly good at the job, remember. And the travellers controversy has actually acted as a warning not to raise anything else.

Imagine being asked about this in 30 years time by a young person doing a masters in social history;

‘Why didn’t anyone outright just say what was going on in his domestic life ? He employed the guy for God’s. He goes on holidays with him without the wife. There was that Forbes piece. It’s not like it’s illegal and people felt so good about that marriage referendum. And there’s the Taoiseach ffs. And the previous Taoiseach with the wig and the makeup and the clothes…I’m mean come on just say it…everyone knows anyway’

'Well this was Ireland. There was still things you couldn’t say. I mean no one wanted to be judgemental. There was a rush not to judge. And I know you say everyone knew but they actually didn’t. It would have been embarrassing to admit a coverup for decades. And think of the family it’s not their fault. Shame is something that we were very wary of. No we couldn’t actually but some could say it privately and some could hint it publicly.

‘But that makes no sense’

‘But this is Ireland’


#48

don’t apologise for your language if thats how you find best to get your point across, but you can apologise for misrepresenting why people would vote for casey, it has been articulated several times already.


#49

You’re not alone in that sentiment. Vote in haste, repent at leisure just as the Yanks and Brits are doing.

As the demographic voter median age rises I reckon we’ll be seeing far more cantankerous contrarian politics. This notion about two fingers to PC is nonsense considering what Casey said was mild compared to the anti-traveler volcano of vitriol in the media at the time of the Padraig Nally case.


#50

Ya wha? The Yanks? Repenting??? I’m not sure the “Brits” are either but never mind me. :slight_smile:


#51

I think the consequences of a protest vote for Casey, even if he were to win, would be rather less meaningful than Trump/Brexit.

As Evil_g points out, the role is purely ceremonial. If people are in the mood for a protest vote, there is no better time to do it.


#52

I think its kind of amusing that with 42 votes in this poll Sean Gallagher the official pollsters 2nd place with about 10% of the vote has yet to receive a single vote from pinsters. :slight_smile:


#53

You’ve mentioned poor Padraig Nally several times and your subconscious mind probably thinks he shot your childhood traveller babysitter. He didn’t. There was no anti-traveller volcano at time. There was a lot of hysteria from Pavee Point etc. There was a lot of commendable clear thinking elsewhere, including the pin. Ward’s last engagement with the police involved slash hooks. Ward really was a monster. Nally was vulnerable, that’s why he was singled out after all.

We need to protect the most vulnerable and worry less about monsters.


#54

The legacy of the Padraig Nally case was the Defence and the Dwelling Act - i.e you could use protection of private property as an attempted defence in a murder case.

Ironically enough the first defendant to use it was a traveller who stabbed a trespasser to death with garden shears.

irishtimes.com/news/crime-a … -1.3426822


#55

Peter Casey said 20 megabytes of internet is adequate for any household and should be rolled out for everyone. We do not need a super highway broadband that we have to wait forever for.


#56

Exactly, I don’t get why Nally has been brought up a few times now. A simple country man who lived alone and lead a frugal life who had got to his wits end by the thieving and trespassing that was going on. How he ended up in jail at all in the 1st place was beyond me.


#57

Wow, that a serious IMAX sized projection you’re doing there.

For what it’s worth I think his sentence was entirely justified considering what he had been put through up to that point.

I know plenty of farmers who leave empty shotgun shells around the front as a warning.

Not all travellers are Nally attackers.

Edit to add: I think the point that’s been missed is that in the Nally incident it was a criminal matter. People of a traveller backround, and I’ve some in my own, get tarred with the crimes of a few. There’s a hypocrisy at play, plenty of gangs with no backround in the Traveler community comb the country scoping out entire estates for doing over.

It’s not a crime to be a Traveler just as being Irish doesn’t mean I’m engaged in terrorism. I was actually asked seriously in a pub here in England last year if I was a terrorist when they heard my accent.


#58

The judge directed the jury to find him guilty!


#59

I’m vote Mickey D for Economic reasons. He’s already being paid to do the job. We already have to pay him his pension for doing it. If we elect him again we don’t have to pay someone else to do the job whilst paying Mickey the pension, and then pay the incumbent the pension.

That and he’s the only one qualified to do the job. The rest of them think the President’s only role is to invite people up to their gaff and something about signing stuff.


#60

This would be the only reason I am considering voting for Casey, I’m fed up with people telling me what I should think!